Causative form of the verbs with を/に

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Ranja
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Joined: Wed 11.05.2008 5:40 am
Native language: Japanese

Re: Causative form of the verbs with を/に

Post by Ranja » Thu 09.15.2011 11:18 pm

Not "perhaps". And your difinition of "normal" is too ambiguous. You HAVE TO write your statement clearly if you want to get in on a serious discussion because we were discussing about the usage here.
By "normally used" I mean those that you usually encounter in real life such as 彼はタクシーを待たす.
Do you claim that this 待たす is the causative form of 待つ?

The causative form of 待つ is, I think, something that appears in the following example:

子供A:先生、B君が次のバスが来るまで1時間もあるから待つのがいやだって。
先生:困ったわね。なんとかなだめて、B君にバスを待たせなさい。

This example might sound a bit weird, but from the context it is obvious that it is B君, not the Bus, that must wait.
I don't know if this is a grammatically correct sentence, but if 待つ has a causative form, it must be something like this. Or could you give me a more precise example?

And why was what I wrote "incorrect"?
According to the dictionary, 待たす is an independent verb. If that's true, then at least some 待たす are not the causative forms of 待つ. So, my statement was not completely incorrect, was it?
From the first, I haven't stated that the verb 待つ doesn't have a causative form, but you determined my statement was *incorrect* without thinking deeply what I had written.
NileCat wrote:The fact that the word 待たせる can be assumed as an independent verb at times does not mean that the verb 待つ doesn’t have a causative form.
I don't deny this. But still I don't understand how this relates to the argument here.

Also, your posts sound very rude to me.
But I'll let other members of this forum decide which is a rude person.

NileCat
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Native language: Japanese
Location: Tokyo

Re: Causative form of the verbs with を/に

Post by NileCat » Fri 09.16.2011 10:17 am

@Ranja
It seems to me that your contention contradicts what you said.

Firstly you said;
Ranja wrote: 待たす or 待たせる is not the causative form of 待つ
After I said it is "incorrect";
Ranja wrote: I haven't written that the verb 待つ doesn’t have a causative form
And now you wrote;
Ranja wrote: The causative form of 待つ is, I think, something that appears in the following example:

子供A:先生、B君が次のバスが来るまで1時間もあるから待つのがいやだって。
先生:困ったわね。なんとかなだめて、B君にバスを待たせなさい。

This example might sound a bit weird, but from the context it is obvious that it is B君, not the Bus, that must wait.
This is exactly the same thing as what I explained before you came.
I wrote:So, if you want to make a "causative form" in the same pattern as No1, it has to be:
「Cathy は Annie に Bob を 待たせる」
And, as you have admitted now, this is the causative form of 待つ, right?
Also, “B君にバスを待たせる” is a "normal" (commonly used) expression, at least, it sounds so to me.

Then, please read again what you said at first.
Ranja wrote: 待たす or 待たせる is not the causative form of 待つ

NileCat

p.s. 残念ながらこれ以上の議論は無意味でしかないでしょうね。

EDITED

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