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Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

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Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby naranero » Wed 10.05.2011 8:51 am

Hi there, im 20yrs old university student in canada. Recently my girlfriend left to do exchange study to china for 1 year. I'm extremely jealous that she gets to learn a new language and travel. So i decided to learn japanese? My goal was to be able to read a thick novel but now it's N1 test.
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby Hyperworm » Wed 10.05.2011 5:47 pm

︵ ┻━┻°3°)・:⋮pmmf!

ヽ#`Д´)ノ what are you doing!!

Anyway welcome :D

Personally, I think that those goals are at about the same level. It feels like they were for me. :)
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby Shiroisan » Wed 10.05.2011 7:23 pm

I don't mean to rip on you, but English is clearly not your native language... so please tell me- Why did you list it as such?
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby TenchiMayo » Wed 10.05.2011 7:57 pm

Naranero よおくそ, がんがって!
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby phreadom » Wed 10.05.2011 8:57 pm

Shiroisan wrote:I don't mean to rip on you, but English is clearly not your native language... so please tell me- Why did you list it as such?


First off, sometimes people either make typos, or they have unique circumstances where while English is in fact their first language, they learned it from non-native speakers who happened to share it as a common language. (For instance our old friend SS. Her mother spoke Philippine or something, and her father Chinese or something... and the only language they had in common was English... so she grew up with her household language being English, but spoken by 2 non-native speakers etc.)

In short. Don't make snappy sounding judgments on people based on a few simple mistakes. Ask politely if English is their native language if you really must know. Thanks. :colonthree:

TenchiMayo wrote:Naranero よおくそ, がんがって!


"ようこそ" means welcome, like up in the forum title next to the little 招き猫 (まねきねこ) (the little waving cat) at the top of the page. :) Easy way to reference the correct spelling. ;)
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby naranero » Wed 10.05.2011 9:35 pm

Shiroisan wrote:I don't mean to rip on you, but English is clearly not your native language... so please tell me- Why did you list it as such?

lol im sorry if i offended your language, apparently i didn't double check a simple hello message. I don't mean to rip on you, but clearly social skill is not your strongest point.
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby naranero » Wed 10.05.2011 9:53 pm

phreadom wrote:
Shiroisan wrote:I don't mean to rip on you, but English is clearly not your native language... so please tell me- Why did you list it as such?


First off, sometimes people either make typos, or they have unique circumstances where while English is in fact their first language, they learned it from non-native speakers who happened to share it as a common language. (For instance our old friend SS. Her mother spoke Philippine or something, and her father Chinese or something... and the only language they had in common was English... so she grew up with her household language being English, but spoken by 2 non-native speakers etc.)

In short. Don't make snappy sounding judgments on people based on a few simple mistakes. Ask politely if English is their native language if you really must know. Thanks. :colonthree:

TenchiMayo wrote:Naranero よおくそ, がんがって!


"ようこそ" means welcome, like up in the forum title next to the little 招き猫 (まねきねこ) (the little waving cat) at the top of the page. :) Easy way to reference the correct spelling. ;)


well, my university major is math so i havent touch english since forever. i wrote that sentence in 5 sec, and didn't bother to check. anyway yea ようこそ=youkoso よおくそ=yookuso, i learned my hiragana but i have 0 vocab lol but they are the same thing?
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby phreadom » Wed 10.05.2011 10:49 pm

naranero wrote:well, my university major is math so i havent touch english since forever. i wrote that sentence in 5 sec, and didn't bother to check. anyway yea ようこそ=youkoso よおくそ=yookuso, i learned my hiragana but i have 0 vocab lol but they are the same thing?


No, they're not the same thing. Spelling is important here. :) For instance, よおくそ! could possibly be taken for like "Hey, bullsh**!!!" or "oh sh**!" etc. It's not really a word... (くそ is basically a cuss word meaning "damn" or "sh**" etc.)

Also, in hiragana vowels are usually (not always though) extended with particular kana... like えい for a long e sound, おう for a long o sound. ああ, いい, and うう are straightforward. There are exceptions like おおきい for "big" or "large" etc.

You might check out http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/ for Firefox if you use that. Or https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... fpcebammhp for Google Chrome. These let you mouse over the Japanese text and get an idea what it says. For basic stuff this can help you tell at a glance if you've spelled something right. :)

In this case mousing over ようこそ gives you "Welcome!; Nice to see you!" as the top result, whereas よおくそ only gives partial hits for よ、お、おく、く、くそ etc.

Hopefully this helps. :) (And it doesn't hurt sometimes to put a few extra seconds into typing forum messages since they kind of stay here for posterity. They're not really like instant messages or texting on your phone, but rather introducing yourself to fellow students and teachers here on a language learning forum. So we try to foster proper English use since there are often many non-native English speakers who also come here to practice their English while learning Japanese or helping teach the rest of us Japanese etc.)

naranero wrote:Well, my university major is math so I haven't touched English since forever. I wrote that sentence in 5 sec, and didn't bother to check. Anyway yeah ようこそ=youkoso よおくそ=yookuso, I learned my hiragana but I have 0 vocab lol but they are the same thing?


And that's going easy on it. :) Basically people here want to help you learn... but if you don't care to spend more than 5 seconds firing off broken English like you're just texting a friend on your mobile, it makes some of the teachers here less inclined to help because they feel like if you don't care enough to bother with using decent English, what hope do you have of learning a drastically different foreign language that requires serious dedication? (Of course we cut slack for non-native speakers, but for native speakers we try to at least request a basic level of effort put into posting.) :colonthree:

I'm not trying to be mean at all. :) Just trying to give you some helpful advice... both with your Japanese studies, and with making the most out of learning here on the forum with the others students and teachers.

And trust me, I know how it can feel to be corrected etc. I got all butthurt when I got corrected about my misuse of みんなさん (←wrong!) back in the day. ;) Hence my posting those links for you up there. Just think of it as a forum full of free tutors who want to help improve your language skills. :bow:

So don't sweat Shiroisan, don't sweat the spelling corrections, and just keep on learning. :mrgreen:
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby Shiroisan » Wed 10.05.2011 11:09 pm

Look, I honestly am not trying to use an indirect insult or be mean or anything like that at all- I just literally don't believe it's possible for someone to grow up using the language (native parents or not, you grow up through school using the language) and make those types of mistakes. Like most people, I have experience speaking with friends who have English as their second language, and have seen the type of errors they make... Even they eventually overcame those kinds of mistakes.

It's just very clear to me that it's not accidental typos or laziness- it's very foreign useage. Just be honest. :neutral:
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby TenchiMayo » Thu 10.06.2011 6:23 am

ごめんなさい :)
I saw it and didn't registered at the time when I post, otherwsie I would've corrected it.
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby naranero » Thu 10.06.2011 8:14 am

Shiroisan wrote:It's just very clear to me that it's not accidental typos or laziness- it's very foreign useage. Just be honest. :neutral

It's October 4th and I just checked back on Amazon and it now says(that goes here) they don't expect to recieve the book until the 10th or 11th? and that(not here) THEN they'll ship it out?

Was this just for me?

i ll change mine if you change yours
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 10.06.2011 9:18 am

naranero wrote:
Shiroisan wrote:It's just very clear to me that it's not accidental typos or laziness- it's very foreign useage. Just be honest. :neutral

It's October 4th and I just checked back on Amazon and it now says(that goes here) they don't expect to recieve the book until the 10th or 11th? and that(not here) THEN they'll ship it out?

Was this just for me?

i ll change mine if you change yours
Haha :lol:

Shiroisan, I really think you've made an error in judgement here. When I first saw the original post, it honestly said "careless casual native English" to me rather than foreign, and I was surprised you jumped straight at it. ._.
It's probably better that you don't pursue this >_>

And naranero, take a little more time over your posts? :)
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby naranero » Thu 10.06.2011 9:25 am

does anyone like stephen fry? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY honestly this is a waste of time, i couldve spent my time talking about anime, jpop, or how sa and ki hiragana are different from my 1985 book
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 10.06.2011 10:58 am

naranero wrote:or how sa and ki hiragana are different from my 1985 book
The bottom curved part of "sa" and "ki" is often broken up in handwriting... but it never happens for "chi". :think:
I got overzealous with it and started breaking up my "chi"s when I first started... :D

Concerning whether it matters to write "properly" ... (and yes stephen fry is awesome :P) the general attitude here seems to be:
This is a language-learning forum, and sometimes native speakers of Japanese come here who want to learn English while helping us learn Japanese.
It's best for their sake if we don't make careless errors under the assumption that we all "know" how to do it properly and what the missing words are.
(That's why "native language" is relevant - it should be in a sense "safe" for someone to learn English from the posts of people with "native language: English".)

I get the feeling that's not at the heart of the issue though... the bigger issue is that everyone else here adheres to proper capitalization etc. already.
It's best to follow suit just to harmonize with the place.
Everyone else has decided to write well to fit in and not "rock the boat", so if one person thinks he alone is an exception and can write sloppily, that can create conflict.
You might say "there's nothing stopping everyone else from writing like me too", but a new member shouldn't be pushing a change to the whole presentation of the site.
"We have our style - why do you think you can/should change it without even a discussion?" kind of thing.

This isn't that unusual a stance for internet forums to take... (though there are obviously many more casual ones too)

Anyway I don't think we're that anal about how to write here.
For instance, outside of a question by a Japanese speaker, I don't think anyone's going to raise anything like the "less/fewer" debate.

(personally i don't have any objections to casual typing and i drop way more punctuation than i 'should' with friends in chat (though never apostrophes xD) ... but for forums i just switch to a formal mode if that seems to be the way things are done. i'm equally used to both styles so it's just a matter of how i think it's best to present myself in each situation.)

Anyway, this seems to be boring you. Sorry. Maybe go make a different topic or come into the chat or something? :D
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Re: Hi, (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Postby phreadom » Thu 10.06.2011 6:28 pm

Hyperworm wrote:For instance, outside of a question by a Japanese speaker, I don't think anyone's going to raise anything like the "less/fewer" debate.


If it makes anyone feel any better, even I don't have a clue what the "less/fewer" debate even is. :P That's pedantry on a whole other level as far as I'm concerned. ;) We really only care about the very basics here... basic punctuation, capitalization... pretty much just don't write like "u r so kool". ;)

I honestly probably would have never mentioned it here if Shiroisan hadn't brought it up. :mrgreen:

naranero: What is the name of your 1985 book? I'm curious if the issue you're referring to is the same one Hyperworm mentioned.
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