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I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

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I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby Suisei » Sat 12.17.2011 3:20 am

Someone said that you don't have to memorize the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten characters in Hiragana and Katakana. I don't know anything about these though so I'm pretty confused.

Should I just memorize them anyway? And does anyone have any tips on learning about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten in Hiragana and Katakana? I'd really appreciate the help. Self studying is so confusing. x.X
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby phreadom » Sat 12.17.2011 7:30 am

You most definitely do need to learn them. :)

It would be like telling you that you don't need to learn half of the English alphabet. You'd be totally lost when you tried to read anything. :mrgreen:

Is there some particular part of learning them that is confusing to you?

http://thejapanesepage.com/beginners/hi ... mbinations
http://thejapanesepage.com/beginners/hi ... nationstwo
http://thejapanesepage.com/beginners/hiragana/SmallTsu

Read those over and ask if there is some part of that you're having trouble with and we can try to work through it. :)
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby Ongakuka » Sat 12.17.2011 7:42 am

Someone said that you don't have to memorize the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten characters in Hiragana and Katakana.


I think they probably meant it doesn't require any 'extra learning.' Which in a sense is true. For example, if you know all characters like 'ha hi hu he ho' become 'ba bi bu be bo' simply by adding the dakuten, it's not like you need to learn any 'new' characters or anything.

Edit: changed handakuten to dakuten as it should have been.
Last edited by Ongakuka on Sun 12.18.2011 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby furrykef » Sat 12.17.2011 10:27 am

And there's nothing at all to the yoon. It looks like ー and it lengthens the previous vowel -- what's to learn about it? You'll see it so often it requires no effort at all to remember.
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby Hyperworm » Sat 12.17.2011 11:03 am

That's chouon(pu) :D (長音符)

By yoon I think we're talking about 拗音(ようおん).

[edit: I didn't know the term before this. Normally I call them glides. .-.]
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby phreadom » Sat 12.17.2011 7:56 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chōonpu == the ー in ラーメン (ramen)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yōon == the きょ in きょう (today)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakuten == the バ in バカ (idiot, fool, or me! ^_^ weee)

Basically the Chouonpu just lengthens the sound of a vowel for an "extra beat". Generally you only see it used with the katakana. In Hiragana you'd see either ああ or えい or おお or おう etc to length vowels.

The Youon is just adding an extra "ya", "yu", or "yo" sound to a single sound. So the sound only stays one "beat" long. So while きよう (skillful) would be 3 "beats" long, きょう would only be 2, the きょ and then the う to lengthen the "o" sound of the first きょ (kyo sound).

As the others have said, the dakuten ( ゛ ) just changes the "unvoiced" sounds to "voiced" sounds... so...

k → g
s → z
t → d
h → b

and the handakuten ( ゜ ) just changes the unvoiced h sounds to p sounds. ha hi hu he ho → pa pi pu pe po.

(And if the difference between writing those names confuses you... eg; Youon and Yōon, it's just different styles of romanization. Since the word in Japanese is actually written ようおん, we tend to write it in a more direct interpretation... "word processor romaji" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wāpuro_rōmaji Hopefully this answers most of your questions so far? :bow: )
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby Suisei » Sat 12.17.2011 8:01 pm

Thank you so much guys. :)

I really appreciate it. ^^

I'll try and go back to studying them. Wish me luck. :3
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby furrykef » Sun 12.18.2011 12:38 am

Hyperworm wrote:That's chouon(pu) :D (長音符)

*headdesk*

Oh well. Still nothing to either of them.
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby Suisei » Sun 12.18.2011 4:14 am

Oh..... I kind of get it now. Just, the problem I'm having now is memorizing what row changes to what. x.X Like the K row turns to a G sound at the beginning and ect.

Guess I should just memorizing what row changes to what I guess?
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby Ongakuka » Sun 12.18.2011 9:31 am

Are you serious? It's so obvious! :D

Whether you say 'ka' or 'ga,' you're making the same position with your mouth to produce either sound. The 'ga' is just a softer version of 'ka.' That is essentially what the dakuten means: to make the sound a little bit softer.

(By the way I don't think anyone corrected me when I said 'handakuten' where I meant 'dakuten' before so I'll edit that myself :) )

'ha' and 'ba' is the same principle. Using a handakuten will make the sound only half way softer, so 'ha' becomes 'pa.' It is only used on the 'H' row as far as I can remember. Anyway you'll pick it up in no time!
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Re: I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

Postby Suisei » Sun 12.18.2011 11:29 am

Ongakuka wrote:Are you serious? It's so obvious! :D

Whether you say 'ka' or 'ga,' you're making the same position with your mouth to produce either sound. The 'ga' is just a softer version of 'ka.' That is essentially what the dakuten means: to make the sound a little bit softer.

(By the way I don't think anyone corrected me when I said 'handakuten' where I meant 'dakuten' before so I'll edit that myself :) )

'ha' and 'ba' is the same principle. Using a handakuten will make the sound only half way softer, so 'ha' becomes 'pa.' It is only used on the 'H' row as far as I can remember. Anyway you'll pick it up in no time!


Oh...my gosh. I am the most slowest person in the world. I kind of get it. :/ *Headdesk* Why am I so slow? ;w;
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