I have a question about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten

[Suisei]

Someone said that you don't have to memorize the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten characters in Hiragana and Katakana. I don't know anything about these though so I'm pretty confused.

Should I just memorize them anyway? And does anyone have any tips on learning about the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten in Hiragana and Katakana? I'd really appreciate the help. Self studying is so confusing. x.X

[phreadom]

You most definitely do need to learn them.

It would be like telling you that you don't need to learn half of the English alphabet. You'd be totally lost when you tried to read anything.

Is there some particular part of learning them that is confusing to you?

http://thejapanesepage.com/beginners/hi ... mbinations
http://thejapanesepage.com/beginners/hi ... nationstwo
http://thejapanesepage.com/beginners/hiragana/SmallTsu

Read those over and ask if there is some part of that you're having trouble with and we can try to work through it.

[Ongakuka]

Someone said that you don't have to memorize the Yoon and Dakuten/Handakuten characters in Hiragana and Katakana.

I think they probably meant it doesn't require any 'extra learning.' Which in a sense is true. For example, if you know all characters like 'ha hi hu he ho' become 'ba bi bu be bo' simply by adding the dakuten, it's not like you need to learn any 'new' characters or anything.

Edit: changed handakuten to dakuten as it should have been.

[furrykef]

And there's nothing at all to the yoon. It looks like ー and it lengthens the previous vowel -- what's to learn about it? You'll see it so often it requires no effort at all to remember.

[Hyperworm]

That's chouon(pu) （長音符）

By yoon I think we're talking about 拗音（ようおん）.

[edit: I didn't know the term before this. Normally I call them glides. .-.]

[phreadom]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chōonpu == the ー in ラーメン (ramen)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yōon == the きょ in きょう (today)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakuten == the バ in バカ (idiot, fool, or me! weee)

Basically the Chouonpu just lengthens the sound of a vowel for an "extra beat". Generally you only see it used with the katakana. In Hiragana you'd see either ああ or えい or おお or おう etc to length vowels.

The Youon is just adding an extra "ya", "yu", or "yo" sound to a single sound. So the sound only stays one "beat" long. So while きよう (skillful) would be 3 "beats" long, きょう would only be 2, the きょ and then the う to lengthen the "o" sound of the first きょ (kyo sound).

As the others have said, the dakuten ( ゛ ) just changes the "unvoiced" sounds to "voiced" sounds... so...

k → g
s → z
t → d
h → b

and the handakuten ( ゜ ) just changes the unvoiced h sounds to p sounds. ha hi hu he ho → pa pi pu pe po.

(And if the difference between writing those names confuses you... eg; Youon and Yōon, it's just different styles of romanization. Since the word in Japanese is actually written ようおん, we tend to write it in a more direct interpretation... "word processor romaji" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wāpuro_rōmaji Hopefully this answers most of your questions so far? )

[Suisei]

Thank you so much guys.

I really appreciate it.

I'll try and go back to studying them. Wish me luck. :3

[furrykef]

That's chouon(pu) （長音符）

*headdesk*

Oh well. Still nothing to either of them.

[Suisei]

Oh..... I kind of get it now. Just, the problem I'm having now is memorizing what row changes to what. x.X Like the K row turns to a G sound at the beginning and ect.

Guess I should just memorizing what row changes to what I guess?

[Ongakuka]

Are you serious? It's so obvious!

Whether you say 'ka' or 'ga,' you're making the same position with your mouth to produce either sound. The 'ga' is just a softer version of 'ka.' That is essentially what the dakuten means: to make the sound a little bit softer.

(By the way I don't think anyone corrected me when I said 'handakuten' where I meant 'dakuten' before so I'll edit that myself )

'ha' and 'ba' is the same principle. Using a handakuten will make the sound only half way softer, so 'ha' becomes 'pa.' It is only used on the 'H' row as far as I can remember. Anyway you'll pick it up in no time!

[Suisei]

Are you serious? It's so obvious!

Whether you say 'ka' or 'ga,' you're making the same position with your mouth to produce either sound. The 'ga' is just a softer version of 'ka.' That is essentially what the dakuten means: to make the sound a little bit softer.

(By the way I don't think anyone corrected me when I said 'handakuten' where I meant 'dakuten' before so I'll edit that myself )

'ha' and 'ba' is the same principle. Using a handakuten will make the sound only half way softer, so 'ha' becomes 'pa.' It is only used on the 'H' row as far as I can remember. Anyway you'll pick it up in no time!

Oh...my gosh. I am the most slowest person in the world. I kind of get it. :/ *Headdesk* Why am I so slow? ;w;

[serelonde]

Are you serious? It's so obvious!

Whether you say 'ka' or 'ga,' you're making the same position with your mouth to produce either sound. The 'ga' is just a softer version of 'ka.' That is essentially what the dakuten means: to make the sound a little bit softer.

(By the way I don't think anyone corrected me when I said 'handakuten' where I meant 'dakuten' before so I'll edit that myself )

'ha' and 'ba' is the same principle. Using a handakuten will make the sound only half way softer, so 'ha' becomes 'pa.' It is only used on the 'H' row as far as I can remember. Anyway you'll pick it up in no time!

actually this is not true... Ga is the hard version of Ka, not the soft. It is the "voiced" version-- meaning your larynx vibrates to make it. all the other Dakuten characters do follow this rule of shifting from the unvoiced to the voiced except H-b/p
B is the voiced version of P
the logical character set to make B- and P- set from would be M because all three are bilabial consonants (made by closing the lips) with P as the dakuten and B as the handakuten-- as all the other sets form the Unvoiced first and then the voiced...

so yeah you can remember most of them like that but h/b/p will mess you up and you will just have to learn them separately
yay linguistic/phonology