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I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

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I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Suisei » Fri 01.06.2012 8:24 am

I think this is the right place to put this topic. I hope it's right well , anyway...


Well, I've been doing the immersing method on AJATT. I finally got things set up so I can start doing kanji but I have a few questions about this article.
Here's the article http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/bl ... ard-format

He says that doing this formula method can benefit you by not making stories to make/manage/decode..but he says to use RTK1 and 3 . What does he mean by this ? I'm kind of confused. :/

If any other people doing are doing AJATT or other people know what he's suggesting, can you help me out? Thanks ^^; I really want to get started
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Hektor6766 » Fri 01.06.2012 11:34 pm

I have no problem with his basic message: go for a light encounter, don't clinch your eyes shut, sweating and straining to remember every line stroke, onyomi, kunyomi, nanori, kyuu grade, etc., with only one encounter. Make the encounter light and easy: write the kanji, give a general meaning in 1 word (or as few as possible). I would say read and say 1 onyomi and kunyomi reading (for those extra points-it is supposed to be Japanese, after all). I would also read out loud 1 or two words and maybe a short sentence that kanji appears in-and leave it at that. For the time being. Then go back to it in a few days, with a different word or sentence. Then repeat, repeat, repeat. The important thing is the repetition, the number of times you encounter that kanji to embed it in your brain, so make the encounters light-but frequent.

But I also have something to say about his example. If you google 膂, you get about 34,000 hits. But if you google 背骨-pretty much the same word, spine or backbone-you get 536,000 hits. 背骨 is more common. And 背 is clearly simpler (and appears in the Chinese lexicon, leading me to believe it is closer to the original form). The lower part (the radical) is nikku which means meat or flesh: anatomic. The top figures (the primitives) represent two people sitting back to back (it also kind of looks like a vertebra, if you wish to go that route). So you can remember this kanji means "back". You'll still want to revisit this and every other kanji frequently, but if you just carry a simple idea (you don't have to make up elaborate stories), this will help give you an "aha" moment when you see the kanji again. But start with the first grades of kanji, leave those uncommon, specialized ones for later.

As far as cards go, I've never made one, never will. Some people may disagree with this, but I feel I'm doing this to learn Japanese, not make flash cards. I want my flash card to be in my brain, not my desk drawer.
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Suisei » Sat 01.07.2012 6:10 am

Hektor6766 wrote:I have no problem with his basic message: go for a light encounter, don't clinch your eyes shut, sweating and straining to remember every line stroke, onyomi, kunyomi, nanori, kyuu grade, etc., with only one encounter. Make the encounter light and easy: write the kanji, give a general meaning in 1 word (or as few as possible). I would say read and say 1 onyomi and kunyomi reading (for those extra points-it is supposed to be Japanese, after all). I would also read out loud 1 or two words and maybe a short sentence that kanji appears in-and leave it at that. For the time being. Then go back to it in a few days, with a different word or sentence. Then repeat, repeat, repeat. The important thing is the repetition, the number of times you encounter that kanji to embed it in your brain, so make the encounters light-but frequent.

But I also have something to say about his example. If you google 膂, you get about 34,000 hits. But if you google 背骨-pretty much the same word, spine or backbone-you get 536,000 hits. 背骨 is more common. And 背 is clearly simpler (and appears in the Chinese lexicon, leading me to believe it is closer to the original form). The lower part (the radical) is nikku which means meat or flesh: anatomic. The top figures (the primitives) represent two people sitting back to back (it also kind of looks like a vertebra, if you wish to go that route). So you can remember this kanji means "back". You'll still want to revisit this and every other kanji frequently, but if you just carry a simple idea (you don't have to make up elaborate stories), this will help give you an "aha" moment when you see the kanji again. But start with the first grades of kanji, leave those uncommon, specialized ones for later.

As far as cards go, I've never made one, never will. Some people may disagree with this, but I feel I'm doing this to learn Japanese, not make flash cards. I want my flash card to be in my brain, not my desk drawer.

I think I kind of get it but should I not do the RTK then ? It's been getting dificult to make up stories to remember them, even though it helps a bit. Since I'm just starting off, I don't know what 1 onyomi and kunyomi readings are and not can't really read japanese only the basics mostly. :(
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Hektor6766 » Sat 01.07.2012 9:23 pm

Onyomi are the readings borrowed from Chinese. These are usually the pronunciations used in compounds. These will appear in katakana in a dictionary entry because they're foreign. Kunyomi are the native Japanese pronunciations usually used for a single kanji, or for verbs, and will appear in hiragana, because they're native Japanese. Nanori are the pronunciations for names, and also appear in hiragana. A learner's dictionary like Kodansha's (a really good dictionary, if you don't already have an electronic) will have a list of words and possibly some common phrases with romaji pronunciations to help you sound out words; if not, they'll have hiragana, which is just as good, if you've faithfully studied it (better, really; you should shun romaji as much as possible).

As for RTK, making up stories, to me anyway, is kind of like re-inventing the wheel; and making up stories for abstract kanji can be really difficult, inaccurate, and hard to remember. The radicals and primitives already tell the kanji's story. And discovering what the people who made up the kanji were trying to get across can be as personalizing and memorable as the stories you make up. I hope you've already looked at the sticky by NileCat at the top of this list to see how neat and clever kanji can be.
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Suisei » Sat 01.07.2012 11:15 pm

Hektor6766 wrote:Onyomi are the readings borrowed from Chinese. These are usually the pronunciations used in compounds. These will appear in katakana in a dictionary entry because they're foreign. Kunyomi are the native Japanese pronunciations usually used for a single kanji, or for verbs, and will appear in hiragana, because they're native Japanese. Nanori are the pronunciations for names, and also appear in hiragana. A learner's dictionary like Kodansha's (a really good dictionary, if you don't already have an electronic) will have a list of words and possibly some common phrases with romaji pronunciations to help you sound out words; if not, they'll have hiragana, which is just as good, if you've faithfully studied it (better, really; you should shun romaji as much as possible).

As for RTK, making up stories, to me anyway, is kind of like re-inventing the wheel; and making up stories for abstract kanji can be really difficult, inaccurate, and hard to remember. The radicals and primitives already tell the kanji's story. And discovering what the people who made up the kanji were trying to get across can be as personalizing and memorable as the stories you make up. I hope you've already looked at the sticky by NileCat at the top of this list to see how neat and clever kanji can be.


Thanks.^^ I've been getting a lot of help from you lately. I really appreciate it. xD Hmm, not sure if I can make phrases in japanese yet. The AJATT method says that I should learn kanji first..not s ure if that's a good idea though since I should use a japanese dictionary. :/ I actually have forgotten some Hiragana lately to be honest (I do know most..hiragana. Just the tenten and maru I sometimes forget. *Facepalm*). I guess I should drill myself each day or something? o.o And I'm trying to avoid romaji as much as I can but when I tend to read out japanese words in my head in romaji. x.X I think I do that maybe, to make sure I have done it right. I'm not sure.

Oh, has anybody recommended any electronic dictionaries to use?

No, I haven't actually. I'll look at that right now. :) Yeah, abstract stories have been a pain lately. I've been getting confused on if I should make up stories regarding stroke other like 'The moon is over X ' . Maybe I should keep memorizing the primitives first and move on intill I get them? I'm not sure about any ways to remember them besides doing flash cards.

Also, when should you learn the japanese word of the kanji?
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Suisei » Sun 01.08.2012 11:07 am

Suisei wrote:
Hektor6766 wrote:Onyomi are the readings borrowed from Chinese. These are usually the pronunciations used in compounds. These will appear in katakana in a dictionary entry because they're foreign. Kunyomi are the native Japanese pronunciations usually used for a single kanji, or for verbs, and will appear in hiragana, because they're native Japanese. Nanori are the pronunciations for names, and also appear in hiragana. A learner's dictionary like Kodansha's (a really good dictionary, if you don't already have an electronic) will have a list of words and possibly some common phrases with romaji pronunciations to help you sound out words; if not, they'll have hiragana, which is just as good, if you've faithfully studied it (better, really; you should shun romaji as much as possible).

As for RTK, making up stories, to me anyway, is kind of like re-inventing the wheel; and making up stories for abstract kanji can be really difficult, inaccurate, and hard to remember. The radicals and primitives already tell the kanji's story. And discovering what the people who made up the kanji were trying to get across can be as personalizing and memorable as the stories you make up. I hope you've already looked at the sticky by NileCat at the top of this list to see how neat and clever kanji can be.


Thanks.^^ I've been getting a lot of help from you lately. I really appreciate it. xD Hmm, not sure if I can make phrases in japanese yet. The AJATT method says that I should learn kanji first..not s ure if that's a good idea though since I should use a japanese dictionary. :/ I actually have forgotten some Hiragana lately to be honest (I do know most..hiragana. Just the tenten and maru I sometimes forget. *Facepalm*). I guess I should drill myself each day or something? o.o And I'm trying to avoid romaji as much as I can but when I tend to read out japanese words in my head in romaji. x.X I think I do that maybe, to make sure I have done it right. I'm not sure.

Oh, has anybody recommended any electronic dictionaries to use?

No, I haven't actually. I'll look at that right now. :) Yeah, abstract stories have been a pain lately. I've been getting confused on if I should make up stories regarding stroke other like 'The moon is over X ' . Maybe I should keep memorizing the primitives first and move on untill I get them? I'm not sure about any ways to remember them besides doing flash cards.


And...do you know of any good websites to get kanji stories from? I kind of got confused on the ones that people posted on kanji.koohii.com. Specially with people picking one meaning to use. :(

Suisei wrote:Also, when should you learn the japanese word of the kanji?


Sorry for asking all these questions. I'm doing self studying on my own and pretty confused right now. :/ I hope I'm not making you annoyed. I understand why you would if you are.
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Hektor6766 » Sun 01.08.2012 10:11 pm

I'm not saying make up any phrases, just read them when a dictionary offers them. And don't feel bad about revisiting the kana; every time you look at them is like another stroke of the brush: the memory gets sharper and stronger.

http://www.zhongwen.com has explanation of lots of kanji. Don't worry about the pinyin, just put in an english word and search it. It's for Chinese, but that's where kanji come from, after all.

http://www.mementoslangues.fr/Japonais/ ... dicals.pdf is a list of the radicals. Rikaichan, if you have Firefox, will give you radicals and primitives when you hover over kanji.

As for electronic dictionaries, I can't help you there. I use JWPce, a nice little Japanese word processor, on my desktop, and I carry around my well-thumbed Kodansha's.

漢字=kanji
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Suisei » Mon 01.09.2012 11:30 am

Hektor6766 wrote:I'm not saying make up any phrases, just read them when a dictionary offers them. And don't feel bad about revisiting the kana; every time you look at them is like another stroke of the brush: the memory gets sharper and stronger.

http://www.zhongwen.com has explanation of lots of kanji. Don't worry about the pinyin, just put in an english word and search it. It's for Chinese, but that's where kanji come from, after all.

http://www.mementoslangues.fr/Japonais/ ... dicals.pdf is a list of the radicals. Rikaichan, if you have Firefox, will give you radicals and primitives when you hover over kanji.

As for electronic dictionaries, I can't help you there. I use JWPce, a nice little Japanese word processor, on my desktop, and I carry around my well-thumbed Kodansha's.

漢字=kanji


Okay! ^^ I'll use this then so, if I were to make a flash card or something I'd probly use the Ideograph ? Like for one (一) , it says it can be the composition for the horizon, or can represent a bar or line or heaven. And just put that on the back I suppose? :/
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Hektor6766 » Mon 01.09.2012 8:28 pm

一 1 hash-mark, 二 2 hash-marks, 三 3 hash-marks. Or fingers. Couldn't be easier.
四 is the first hint of a challenge. 八, besides meaning 8, also means division or separation; 口 has 4 sides, but it's used for mouth. But that's ok, just use the four sides, counted separately by 八, to represent 4.
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Re: I have a few quesitons about this article on AJATT

Postby Suisei » Tue 01.10.2012 10:04 am

Hektor6766 wrote:一 1 hash-mark, 二 2 hash-marks, 三 3 hash-marks. Or fingers. Couldn't be easier.
四 is the first hint of a challenge. 八, besides meaning 8, also means division or separation; 口 has 4 sides, but it's used for mouth. But that's ok, just use the four sides, counted separately by 八, to represent 4.

Oh. I kind of get it now. Thanks :3
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