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が woes... =(

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が woes... =(

Postby Shiroisan » Mon 01.30.2012 1:43 am

Chapter 15 of Genki Kanji is entitled "My favourite place." However, in Japanese they wrote:

私が好きな所

Can someone tell me why it's not [私の好きな所].

I definitely understood the grammar behind "I like" sentences.

私は本やが好きな所だ "The bookstore is my favourite place."

I understand why there's no "の" particle there, because the "my" is implied by 好きな. However, 私が好きな所 is neither IMPLYING "my" or INCLUDING "my". Instead it reads to me as "I am my favourite place".


Does anyone understand why I would read it as "I am my favourite place", or am I just bonkers?
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Re: が woes... =(

Postby NileCat » Mon 01.30.2012 2:52 pm

1) 私の好きな所
2) 私が好きな所

Either will do. :)
The difference in nuance highly depends on the context.
Semantically, you can see them like: 1) “my favorite place” and 2) “the place I like”
(Note: 1 CAN mean “what I like about myself” depending on the context)

Shiroisan wrote:私は本やが好きな所だ "The bookstore is my favourite place."

I understand why there's no "の" particle there, because the "my" is implied by 好きな. However, 私が好きな所 is neither IMPLYING "my" or INCLUDING "my". Instead it reads to me as "I am my favourite place".


Does anyone understand why I would read it as "I am my favorite place", or am I just bonkers?

You are right in a way. This is a very tricky sentence structure. Grammatically speaking, although it might not be completely wrong, many people would find it very strange when it appears in proper writings. However, to our surprise, even if it sounds weird, this sentence totally makes sense. (The listeners are able to understand the meaning) This is because of the work of the topic marker “は” and the copula “だ”. The proper sentence is 私は本屋が好きだ or 私の好きな場所は本屋だ. But if you say 私は本屋が好きな場所だ, it can mean like “Speaking for myself, bookstores are the places I like”

This structure seems kind of similar to the notorious “unagi sentence”.
(cf. http://thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewto ... 31&t=13736)
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Re: が woes... =(

Postby yangmuye » Mon 01.30.2012 4:50 pm

Shiroisan wrote:私は本やが好きな所だ "The bookstore is my favourite place."
I understand why there's no "の" particle there, because the "my" is implied by 好きな. However, 私が好きな所 is neither IMPLYING "my" or INCLUDING "my". Instead it reads to me as "I am my favourite place".

If you don't use は, the sentence should be “私本屋好きな所だ”. or “私本屋好きだ”. (It's I who like the bookstore.)
So “{私が好きな}所” means “the place {that I like}”.
The structure is the same as “私ある所行った”→“{私が行った}所”(the place where {I went}).

This expression is ambiguous sometimes. e.g. 私が好きな子, it may mean either “私は彼女のことが好きだ、そういう女の子”(the most likely interpretation), or “彼女は私のことが好きだ、そういう女の子”.


======
「私は本屋が好きな場所だ」と言えば、少し話がずれますが、なかなか興味深い文型です。
もしこれを「 はが」文にすると「私は好きな場所が本屋だ」となるはずですが、そういう言い方は変になるかも知れません。
私は、「好きな場所」は紐帯の様なもので、今までの話と無関連な「本屋」を、すでに話題に出た「私」と結んで、新たなものを唐突でないように話題に出すための表現なのではないかと思います。
「私は」を取って、二つの文にするとどうなるのでしょうか
 私は猫です。魚が好きな食べ物です。
 私は猫です。好きな食べ物は魚です。

後者の方が話が進みつつありそうな感じがします。
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Re: が woes... =(

Postby Shiroisan » Tue 01.31.2012 12:07 am

That was helpful. The "I am an eel" thing sort of jarred some sense back into my head now. I understand, thank you!
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Re: が woes... =(

Postby Hektor6766 » Tue 01.31.2012 7:44 pm

誰か所好きだ。
誰が好きな所か?
私が好きな所。


誰かが好きな所。
Last edited by Hektor6766 on Wed 02.01.2012 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: が woes... =(

Postby NileCat » Wed 02.01.2012 2:47 pm

Hektor6766 wrote:誰か所好きだ。
誰が好きな所か?
私が好きな所。
:)

誰か所好きだ。
→ Sorry but this sentence doesn’t make sense.

誰が好きな所か?
→ Whose favorite place is this?

私が好きな所。
→ The place that I like.
(If you want to mention some idea or concept, not a physical place, it would be translated like “the point / side / personality / feature / characteristics I like” or simply “what I like”, I guess.)
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Re: が woes... =(

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 02.02.2012 10:07 am

Shiroisan wrote:I understand why there's no "の" particle there, because the "my" is implied by 好きな. However, 私が好きな所 is neither IMPLYING "my" or INCLUDING "my". Instead it reads to me as "I am my favourite place".


Does anyone understand why I would read it as "I am my favourite place", or am I just bonkers?


Your problem is that you're parsing the sentence incorrectly. You're reading this as 私が [好きな所], but this is [私が好き] な 所. In other words, 私が好きだ is a sentence that modifies 所 and tells you what kind of place (だ turns to な in this situation).
-Chris Kern
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