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ルビ / ふりがな question...

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ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby phreadom » Mon 02.20.2012 1:49 am

I've been working with ruby code lately on web pages...

My question is how to "correctly" apply furigana with ruby in cases like 御免なさい

Would one do separate ruby for each kanji, or one over both?

eg; Separate:

Code: Select all
<ruby>御<rp>(</rp><rt>ご</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby><ruby>免<rp>(</rp><rt>めん</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>なさい

or Together:
Code: Select all
<ruby>御免<rp>(</rp><rt>ごめん</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>なさい


So in IE, Safari, and Chrome it will look like the following:
ruby2.png
ruby2.png (5.25 KiB) Viewed 3300 times


Because Firefox and Opera don't yet support ruby text, it falls back using the parentheticals specified in the <rp> tags... so it looks like this;

御(ご)免(めん)なさい
and
御免(ごめん)なさい

The examples given in the HTML section on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_chara ... p_examples show it done separately, like my first examples here... but I'm not sure if there is a "correct" way, or if this is more just personal preference etc.

http://html5doctor.com/ruby-rt-rp-element/ also seems to imply that the "per kanji" way of doing it is "more correct", but says that it doesn't degrade as nicely in non-supporting browsers and is a pain in the butt to code (which it is). :P So I keep getting mixed signals everywhere I look/ask.

I hope someone here can help me settle this issue so that I don't feel like I'm doing it wrong going forward. 教えてください :bow:
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Re: ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 02.20.2012 2:47 am

In print books, they appear to put the furigana in on a per-word basis, not a per-character basis. So, I would say I prefer 'together' in general. However, one thing that sometimes happens when this is automated is that words like
申し上げます
get treated as
もうしあ
 申し上げます
when they should really be
もう あ
 申し上げます

That is, if there's intervening kana, the furigana should be broken and should not duplicate the intervening kana.

Of course, it's not really that important, but that's how it is in professionally published works and so it feels clean and professional and comfortable when it matches what I read on paper.

(Well, except that web pages insist on horizontal writing for some reason no matter how professional they are in other respects... ;) )
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Re: ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby phreadom » Mon 02.20.2012 3:02 am

I've seen a number of examples now from newspapers, and the Naruto manga for instance where it is on a per kanji basis.

In fact even my book here has it on a per kanji basis (I have on on Bushido)... :think: :sweatdrop:
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Re: ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 02.20.2012 3:31 am

Well. Ask yourself this - if it's on a per-kanji basis where is the right place to put the reading for 大人?

Per-kanji or per-word is six of one and half a dozen of the other for sino-japanese words, but for native Japanese words it makes less sense and for those native words that are irregular readings, it makes no sense.

Looking closely at my books, it does seem like they are split - although you have to look really closely, because when the readings are more than one character per kanji, there's no gaps anyway. Kino's Journey and Spice & Wolf are even from the same publisher, and yet Kino is per word and Spice&Wolf is per kanji.

Anyway, for web development, the parenthesized text alternate presentation is a consideration that strongly calls for 'together' (and also for a way to turn furigana off if possible; even 'together' parenthesized readings are still disruptive.)
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Re: ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby phreadom » Mon 02.20.2012 3:41 am

Good point. I'm kind of leaning that way... I'll probably just do that.

I think as far as a way to disable them, it would probably be a javascript toggle to set display:none on the <rp> and <rt> content to just hide it entirely.

Thanks for the feedback. :)
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Re: ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 02.20.2012 3:58 am

No problem, I'm always ready to throw my opinion around ;)

It occurs to me too, that furigana in professional publications may actually vary from page to page - at least in novels, the author writes in the pronunciations by hand (or anyway selects words by hand). What they do in their word processor may be reflected in the final print run, or else how the typesetter goes about entering text may change it.

I imagine they must automate it for the 100% furigana manga... although of course they do slide the custom readings in as well, but that would be a ton of extra typing to enter all those words twice.

So much that I don't know, hmm... I'm going to be staring at every instance of furigana for awhile now. That could make manga reading in particular really slow!
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Re: ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby NileCat » Mon 02.20.2012 4:07 am

Phreadom, it’s only a style issue. No one can tell which is correct or incorrect. You can choose one according to your personal preference.
However, many major publishers might generally prefer mono-rubi(モノルビ)when it doesn’t look confusing or it doesn’t look messy rather than group-rubi(グループルビ)
Image
In this case, the word 君子 has enough space for three hiragana letters.


Nevertheless, when the target kanji needs more than three rubi letters, many editors would re-think about it.
Image
In the word 凝視, the first letter needs three whereas the second needs only one. It might seem aesthetically imbalanced. So, they would prefer the group-rubi in this kind of cases.
Image


And, for 熟字訓, of course, you can’t use mono-rubi.
Image

Hope this helps. :)
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Re: ルビ / ふりがな question...

Postby phreadom » Mon 02.20.2012 4:47 am

Ah, thank you NileCat先生! :bow:

I'll probably just stick to グループルビ for now then since it's a lot less code and looks better in Firefox and Opera (which don't yet properly support it).

ありがとうございます :bow:
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