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「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

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「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby HUMBERT » Mon 02.27.2012 5:27 pm

Hi, there

I really need a favor with the explaination of the following sentences.
「臭くってもいいよ、臭い所が捨てられないっていうんだから」
「あの猿がかい?」
「あ、いけねえ、そいつを言われるとあやまるよ」
It will be very appreciated that you'd help me out.
1. I don't understand why 「臭い所が捨てられない」
2. What is the meaning of 「あの猿がかい?」and
「あ、いけねえ、そいつを言われるとあやまるよ」

Best regards,
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 02.27.2012 11:15 pm

Without context, this is probably going to be a very incorrect and mangled translation because it's a really weird snippet of conversation. Since you don't say what you -do- understand, I'm probably going to say a lot of stuff you already know.

Assuming the three lines go together.

「臭くって も いいよ、臭い 所 が 捨てられない って いう ん だから」
"Even smelly is fine. Because what has smelly parts won't be thrown out."
(And 臭い所 can be a metaphor for suspicious. There may be a double meaning at play here, given the next line and assuming they go together.)
「あの 猿 が かい?」
"That monkey?" (With かい substituting for か which is dialect.)
「あ、いけねえ、そいつを言われるとあやまるよ」
"Ah, that's no good. If told that, (someone) will apologize."

いけねえ is just dialect for いかない, and I think そいつ is dialect for それ here although it often means その人 as well - I can't know without context but the latter seems unlikely in this grammar.

The grammar suggests the person being told something is the one that will apologize, since that would be the result if there is one subject, but it's slightly more likely (from the little context we have now, namely, a short comment about 'that monkey') that the meaning here is 'when you say that to me you better apologize' if we take あやまるよ as an interjection rather than an extension of the sentence in a way that should have the same subject.
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby Ongakuka » Tue 02.28.2012 10:43 am

臭い 所 が 捨てられない = can't get rid of the fact that (he/she/it) is smelly. 'tokoro' means 'feature' here

It is the speaker who is saying they will apologize

Since the title of your thread is a request, please use more formal Japanese (i.e 「臭い所が捨てられない」とはどういう意味ですか

I hope that helps
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Tue 02.28.2012 1:13 pm

Ongakuka wrote:臭い 所 が 捨てられない = can't get rid of the fact that (he/she/it) is smelly. 'tokoro' means 'feature' here

Oh, potential not passive... of course. That makes more sense, my bad.

It is the speaker who is saying they will apologize

I don't see how you can know this, although it seems like a likely interpretation of the line in isolation... but...

A says "Smelly's all right. Can't help being smelly."
B says "You mean that monkey?"
A says "Ahh, that's no good, if I'm someone says that to me then I'll apologize."

Hnhhh... ? In the tiny context we have, I have trouble seeing it being 'when someone says that to me I will apologize'.
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby Hyperworm » Tue 02.28.2012 3:05 pm

...This is nearly impossible to translate without context.

It seems very likely that the そいつ in そいつを言われると refers to what was just said ("あの猿がかい?"), and since A is the person who was 言われる'd to, あやまるよ is almost certainly an apology from him ("Crap, when you put it that way, I should apologize.").

But it's a little hard to divine exactly why he should apologize without context (probably something wrong/impolite with what he said in the first line?)
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby NileCat » Tue 02.28.2012 4:18 pm

Hyperworm wrote:...This is nearly impossible to translate without context.

I agree. :)
It seems very likely that the そいつ in そいつを言われると refers to what was just said ("あの猿がかい?"), and since A is the person who was 言われる'd to, あやまるよ is almost certainly an apology from him ("Crap, when you put it that way, I should apologize.").

I agree. :)

But it's a little hard to divine exactly why he should apologize without context (probably something wrong/impolite with what he said in the first line?)

The best guess I can make is that person A felt kind of embarrassed because person B pointed out that person C was a monkey. Person A might have been the person who introduced person C to person B. So, person A might have felt that he needed to apologize for that C is a monkey (stupid/dirty/etc).
Just my two cents, though. :D
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Tue 02.28.2012 4:56 pm

三人にもそいつを言われると信じています、ご説明ありがとうございました。

Of course, marking the lines as an exchange between A and B is my own interpretation. It's possible that the third line is spoken by a person C who may or may not be the monkey.

Anyway, while I do find it somewhat interesting once in a great while to see just how much -can- be deduced from lines out of context, I suggest to the original questioner that it would be better to provide context and an explanation of what you do understand about the passage you need help with. Some people might consider not doing so to be presumptuous, if not rude.
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby NileCat » Wed 02.29.2012 4:27 am

SomeCallMeChris wrote: I suggest to the original questioner that it would be better to provide context and an explanation of what you do understand about the passage you need help with. Some people might consider not doing so to be presumptuous, if not rude.

I totally agree with this. :)
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby HUMBERT » Wed 02.29.2012 10:43 am

Dear SomeCallMeChris, Ongakuka, Hyperworm, Nilecat

I quoted these sentences from「痴人の愛(p.140)/谷崎潤一郎」。
Sorry to all of you, I had no idea of that you would need the context to unerstand this dialogue, or I should post them in the biginning with my question. I'll post more context-I wish it would be long enough with you pals to help me explaining what the author means. But firstly, I'd like to thank you and answer the questions respectively.

Dear SomeCall MeChris,
'Because what has smelly parts won't be thrown out.'>this is exactly why I get confuse, people don't like stuff having a strong or nasty smell in usual, do we? We must throw smelly stuff at once, how come what has smelly parts won't be thrown out??
I think「あの猿」is indicated to the girl with「ピンク色の洋服」。

Dear Ongakuka,
Thanks for your advisement. I will take your words in mind from now.

Dear Hyperworm and Nilecat
Thanks for your explanation.I think I had got the point with all your explanation.
It is exactlly just as what you had indicated."person A felt kind of embarrassed because person B pointed out that person C was a monkey. Person A might have been the person who introduced person C to person B. So, person A might have felt that he needed to apologize for that C is a monkey"
person A is 'まアちゃん'
person B is 'ナオミ'who had been said in the former context that the girl with「ピンク色の洋服」は「まるで猿だよ」
so そいつはperson Cのことと思います。
But still, I don't understand why「臭くって も いいよ、臭い 所 が 捨てられない 」。
It's a Japanese proverb?

次は、I post more context as follows, please feel free to alarm if you still find it short.
「さ、いかがです。浜田君も熊谷君も、これへお掛けになりませんか」
「譲治さん、あたし喉がかわいから、何か飲むものを言って頂戴。浜さん、あんた何がいい?レモン.スクオッシュ?」
「え、僕はなんでも結構だけれど、…」
「まアちゃん、あんたは?」
「どうせご馳走になるのなら、ウイスキー.タンサンに願いたいね」
「まあ、あきれた、あたし酒飲みは大嫌いさ、口が臭くって!」
「臭くってもいいよ、臭いところが捨てられないっていうんだから」
「あの猿がかい?」
「あ、いけねえ、そいつを言われるとあやまるよ」
「あははは」

Sincerely,
Humbert
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby Ongakuka » Wed 02.29.2012 11:29 am

I quoted these sentences from「痴人の愛(p.140)/谷崎潤一郎」。


Wow... this is a weird feeling. I've actually read Naomi in Japanese, and as soon as you said that I was able to picture the scene exactly as I read it! I guess that is the power of context ;)

You are absolutely right, 'monkey' is referring to the ungainly woman who wears too much makeup at the (was it a ball dance?) who these young characters make fun of, and she is not present in this scene.
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby NileCat » Wed 02.29.2012 11:35 am

I’m afraid we still need more context to make out “who said to whom” thing in the scene. :)

Anyway, it seems like:
(酒を飲んで)口が臭くなってもいい(=問題はない)よ。なぜなら、(恋人/配偶者?は)臭いところ(=という特徴)(こそ)が、(あなた/彼/私を)捨てられない(理由だ)っていうんだから
Roughly translated:
“Smelly is fine. For she claims your/his/my smell is the reason she can’t dump you/him/me.”
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby NileCat » Wed 02.29.2012 1:22 pm

Well, I think I’d be expected to explain the usage more precisely. :)
Let’s begin with a very simple sentence.

あなたの目が好き。
= I like your eyes.
あなたのきれいな目が好き。
 = I like your beautiful eyes.
あなたの目のきれいなところが好き。
 = I like (the fact that) your eyes are beautiful.

Then,

あなたの変なところが好き。
 = I like (the fact/part that) you are strange.
あなたの駄目なところが好き。
 = I like (the fact/part that) you are pathetic.

And,

変なところが魅力。
 = [The fact that you are strange] is [charming for me].

変なところが忘れられない。
 = [The fact that you are strange] is [what I can’t forget]
 ≒ [The fact that you are strange] is (the reason) I can't forget (you).
 ≒ I can't forget you [for some weird reason] (which is you are strange)

See? Now I think you got it.

変なところが捨てられない。
 = [The fact that you are strange] is [what I can’t throw away]
 ≒ [The fact that you are strange] is the reason I can’t throw you away.
 ≒ I can’t dump you because you are strange.

OR, [≒ Even your strangeness is a part of your charm and I can't get rid of it.] might sound more literal translation in many cases if this sentence comes alone. However, 捨てられない is usually used to mean "can't dump someone (not something)" in the context mentioning some relationship between a man and a woman.
I'll check up the book when I have time. :)

(Note: the "≒" part highly depends on the context.)

EDITED
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby NileCat » Thu 03.01.2012 8:56 am

Ok. I got the book.

The speaker is a youngster called Maa-chan who is a student of Keio University. He is supposed to be a young player (playboy). And he had been witnessed by the others in the scene he was dancing with a ridiculously dressed-up woman. One of them called the woman a monkey.

Naomi “Maa-chan, what do you want to drink?”
Maa-chan “If it’s on him, I’d like whisky soda, please”
Naomi “Good Lord! I loathe drinkers. They have bad breath!”
Maa-chan “Doesn’t matter. They say [they love my bad breath]*. (meaning-wise)
Naomi (or Hamada) “By ‘they’, you mean that monkey?”
Maa-chan “Oh, no! (touché!). I have to surrender if you mention it.”
(They laugh)

Image

Image
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby HUMBERT » Thu 03.01.2012 9:08 am

Hi, Nilecat

I can't thank you enough for your detailed reasoning of "臭い所が捨てられない".
I think it should be the same meaning as we say "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"
,or in this case 臭い所 is charmingn to the lover.
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Re: 「臭い所が捨てられない」って、どういう意味?

Postby hemat » Tue 06.25.2013 7:14 am

hi NileCat san, I really appreciate your explanation you really make it so easy to understand :bow:
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