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aka nukeshita

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aka nukeshita

Postby themonk » Sun 03.18.2012 3:31 pm

Who knows what is the verb in this phrase, which means: what is left after all the dirt & grime has been removed.

I cannot quite decide between verb, kesu, and verb, nukeru.

KESU would make sense with the keshita part, but i do not know what is the function of "nu" left there.

NUKERU takes care of the nu part, but does not seem to conjugate and get me to the shita ending.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: aka nukeshita

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Sun 03.18.2012 4:15 pm

Do you have any context or kanji spelling? What makes you think that it means 'what is left after the dirt and grime is removed'?
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Re: aka nukeshita

Postby Hektor6766 » Sun 03.18.2012 7:42 pm

If it's 垢抜けした (lit., dirt removed), it means refined, or urbane, chic.
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Re: aka nukeshita

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Sun 03.18.2012 7:54 pm

That occurred to me, but since he specifically gave a definition that doesn't match I didn't want to confuse the issue.
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Re: aka nukeshita

Postby Ongakuka » Mon 03.19.2012 11:27 am

He's after the conjugation which is 垢抜け した(I.e past tense of する)

However it works more like an adjective than a verb, to describe that which is rid of grime. The real verb is 垢抜ける
なぜなら、おまえは・・・・・・人形だ
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Re: aka nukeshita

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 03.19.2012 1:19 pm

But 垢抜ける does not mean 'getting rid of grime' at all, it means 'refined', 'polished' etc., in the sense of a person, not a clean surface.

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF- ... &pagenum=1
あか‐ぬ・ける【×垢抜ける】
[動カ下一]容姿・動作や技芸などが洗練されている。いきですっきりしている。「―・けた着こなし」

I don't believe the Japanese word has any use where it reverts to the literal meaning of its root words (which root words do seem to suggest a metaphorical etymology, although the kanji may have been applied after the fact to a word with a totally different etymology for all I know). This word is used to talk about a person's attire, bearing, or talents. I don't think 'grime' should be mentioned in connection with this word at all except as an etymological footnote or a description of its original (but no longer generally used) kanji.

ALC has plenty of examples, although rather than 'refined' it prefers a translation of 'sophisticated' or 'urbane', and sounds like rather dated English to my ears, but nonetheless, it gets the notion across.
http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E3%81%82 ... C%E3%81%91
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Re: aka nukeshita

Postby themonk » Mon 03.19.2012 11:20 pm

Thank you all, Sensei.

Ongakuka sensei's answer picked apart the phrase, which answered my question.

SomeCallmeChris sensei illustrated a problem when i tried the word-for-word solution. I got the idea of "removing grime and dirt" from a piece that De Mente wrote.


by Ongakuka » Mon 03.19.2012 11:27 am

He's after the conjugation which is 垢抜け した(I.e past tense of する)

However it works more like an adjective than a verb, to describe that which is rid of grime. The real verb is 垢抜ける

SomeCallMeChris wrote:But 垢抜ける does not mean 'getting rid of grime' at all, it means 'refined', 'polished' etc., in the sense of a person, not a clean surface.

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF- ... &pagenum=1
あか‐ぬ・ける【×垢抜ける】
[動カ下一]容姿・動作や技芸などが洗練されている。いきですっきりしている。「―・けた着こなし」

I don't believe the Japanese word has any use where it reverts to the literal meaning of its root words (which root words do seem to suggest a metaphorical etymology, although the kanji may have been applied after the fact to a word with a totally different etymology for all I know). This word is used to talk about a person's attire, bearing, or talents. I don't think 'grime' should be mentioned in connection with this word at all except as an etymological footnote or a description of its original (but no longer generally used) kanji.

ALC has plenty of examples, although rather than 'refined' it prefers a translation of 'sophisticated' or 'urbane', and sounds like rather dated English to my ears, but nonetheless, it gets the notion across.
http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E3%81%82 ... C%E3%81%91
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