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Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this....

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Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this....

Postby tokyotower » Thu 03.22.2012 4:11 am

Please, I'm becoming crazy to translate this....
is it correct?
Please, I need to translate this perfectly...


頭の中のIMAGEを鮮明に具現化できたら
絶対去年までの作品とはまた進化した音源ができそう。
Certainly, compared to last year's work, it seems that I can still improved
my songs, if I could clearly express the image in my head.

さぎょうの合間、ふと感じたけど今日の行程はIDEAを
なんだか絞りだそうとしてる感がある。
During a work break, suddenly I felt like, in today's phase, somehow I'm
trying to come up the ideas out.

FLAT意識で臨んだ時の方が後で聴くといいかんじの場合がおおい。
In most cases there's good feelings when you listening to it later with flat
mind ('relaxed mind')

今日はなんだか一周回って軸が曖昧な感じ。
Somehow, the axis seems vague today. ??? (Axis? I dont like to translate it in this way)


声も、生身というかありのまま向き合ってきたつもりだけど
いままでのsolo曲を冷静に聴いてみたら、
even the tone of voice, but I'll
if I listen calmly my solo-music until now,

またまた表現方法があるのではないかなと考えさせられた
it made me think that still there's some manner of expression.


Thank you...
Last edited by tokyotower on Thu 03.22.2012 5:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to translate this....

Postby yangmuye » Thu 03.22.2012 5:23 am

The full version of the first sentence might be:
あらためて詩の一言一句を今以上にもっと大切にしようと思う、

声色も、生身というかありのまま向き合ってきたつもりだけど
けど is not but, but a mark which can tell you the speaker hasn't finished his utterance.
たつもり seems to mean “I think”, which is a fault impression.

いままでのsolo曲を冷静に聴いてみたら、またまた表現方法があるのではないかなと考えさせられた。
たら means “when”. させられた is not passive. It's used with たら to express an unintentional action.
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to translate this....

Postby tokyotower » Thu 03.22.2012 5:32 am

yangmuye wrote:The full version of the first sentence might be:
あらためて詩の一言一句を今以上にもっと大切にしようと思う、

声色も、生身というかありのまま向き合ってきたつもりだけど
けど is not but, but a mark which can tell you the speaker hasn't finished his utterance.
たつもり seems to mean “I think”, which is a fault impression.

いままでのsolo曲を冷静に聴いてみたら、またまた表現方法があるのではないかなと考えさせられた。
たら means “when”. させられた is not passive. It's used with たら to express an unintentional action.


Sorry I had to edit the question, since I had some lines even more difficult to ask help.
But I'll reply to your answer,
I think it's correct, 'tsumori' it's "I think" or "I believe" here.

It's not passive "考えさせられた"?
Omg, I'm confused now...

またまた表現方法があるのではないかなと考えさせられた

How can translate 考えさせられた then , in english? Thank you!
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby Ongakuka » Thu 03.22.2012 8:04 am

させられた is not passive. It's used with たら to express an unintentional action.


The second part I can agree with, but there is no denying that させられた is the passive voice. To say otherwise is very misleading! Anyway, when we translate this sentence we don't need to keep the verb in the passive voice if the English can be expressed more naturally without it.

For example, something like '...I begin to wonder if there could be some other forms of expression/ways to express myself'

As you know, the art of translation is keeping the balance of accuracy, faithfulness to the original, and keeping the translation sounding natural in the target language.
なぜなら、おまえは・・・・・・人形だ
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby yangmuye » Thu 03.22.2012 9:37 am

As for 考えさせられた, “It made me think” is fine.
I'm not an English speaker so I don't know to to express the nuance in English. But I think you don't need to make the effort to translate “させられ” part.
いままでのsolo曲を冷静に聴いてみたら、またまた表現方法があるのではないかなと考えさせられた
When/Once I tried listening to the solos so far calmly, I thought that ....

The sentences are “crazy” to me too, so I can't help you.
Let's wait for natives' comments.
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby NileCat » Thu 03.22.2012 11:31 am

Well, the followings seem to be the original sentences. The differences are not many, however, I recommend you to quote the original if you can when you want proper corrections (especially when you need to know the nuance).

original writer wrote:頭の中のイメージを鮮明に具現化できたら絶対去年までの作品とはまた進化した音源ができそう。作業の合間、ふと感じたけど今日の行程はアイデアをなんだか絞りだそうとしてる感がある。フラットな意識で臨んだ時の方が後で聴くと良い感じの場合が多い。今日はなんだか一周回って軸が曖昧な感じ。

original writer wrote:当然の事だけど詩の一言一句をもっと大切にしようと。あらためて今以上に。声色も、生身というかありのまま向き合ってきたつもりだけど今までのソロ音源を冷静に聴いてみたら、まだまだ表現方法があるのではないかなと考えさせられた。


Then,
tokyotower wrote:FLAT意識で臨んだ時の方が後で聴くといいかんじの場合がおおい。
In most cases there's good feelings when you listening to it later with flat
mind ('relaxed mind')

No. He says that it works when he creates his music with ‘flat mind’ (in a straightforward manner, I guess).

tokyotower wrote:今日はなんだか一周回って軸が曖昧な感じ。
Somehow, the axis seems vague today. ??? (Axis? I dont like to translate it in this way)

He tells that his axis/kernel/heart as an artist doesn’t seem steady today. 一周回って is a common (slangy) phrase to mention something is going far beyond.

yangmuye wrote:As for 考えさせられた, “It made me think” is fine.

I agree.
Ongakuka wrote:As you know, the art of translation is keeping the balance of accuracy, faithfulness to the original, and keeping the translation sounding natural in the target language.

I totally agree with this.

:)
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby tokyotower » Fri 03.23.2012 3:12 am

Guys...
I don't know how to thanks you all...

I was puzzled about if "考えさせられた, could be translated also as
“It made me think” because I really could see the passive or at least 'causative', but I really wish to be faithful at the original sentence as much as I can.
Even if it's not good to have a translation too much literal, yet, it's true that there's need to keeping the balance of accuracy, faithfulness to the original, and keeping the translation sounding natural in the target language.

That's a rule! To translate it's an art, really.
And I love so much this art.
I hope to improve my skills.
Sometimes I feel upset, because its 3 years almost that I study japanese, (by myself) but still I can't see the right path in these kind of sentences.

Maybe because I never followed a complete course/guide/study from a bood..
I always study reading one day from one book , one day from one page of internet, one day from another different page of internet.
There's so much different materials to learning japanese, so much resourses, that I really don't know where to start...
People often told me that there's need a workbook... but there's so many... what could be the right workbook for who study by oneself?
Still I can't give an answer to this.. :(

Another note:
Usually, I don't study Japanese by these 'blog' sentences , because are much more hard and requires more better skills to translate this kind of stuff. I know this, but since I have the necessity to translate also these news and messages, I have to do both things.
From one hand, I study grammar or reading japanese learning pages.
From the other hand, I have to keep me informed on news , interviews etc.
So I have to do contemporanely both things.
But to translate some sentences I need sometimes even 1 entirely day, so I don't have time to study!
It's really hard, but I have to follow a book, a workbook, steadly. Something that I start to study from the beginning until the end.

There's books that you would suggest me?

Thank you a lot again for the help!
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby tokyotower » Fri 03.23.2012 3:41 am

tokyotower wrote:FLAT意識で臨んだ時の方が後で聴くといいかんじの場合がおおい
In most cases there's good feelings when you listening to it later with flat
mind ('relaxed mind')


NileCat wrote:No. He says that it works when he creates his music with ‘flat mind’ (in a straightforward manner, I guess).


I forgot to ask about this , because still confuse me.

You says it means 'when he creates his music with 'flat mind', but I really can't read this,
I see the word 聴く , like if he says:

"In many cases, I feel good feelings いいかんじの場合がおおい, the way 時の方 I deal with it (I face)/(the music I created) afterward, when I listening to it with a 'flat' mind (straightforward mind)

I know it's not good too much literal the translation, but I see the word 'listening', I really don't know why it was cut off, :think:

Thanks for the explanations!
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby yangmuye » Fri 03.23.2012 4:38 am

Let's break it down to see what the underlying structure is.
{②{①FLAT意識で臨んだ時}の方が}
{④{③後で聴くといい感じ}の場合がおおい}

①=フラット意識で臨んだ時
時 is a condition, “when” or “if”. When I deal with/compose my composition with “FLAT意識”

③=後で聴くといい感じだ
I feel good if/when I listen to it afterward

④=③の場合が多い=後で聴くといい感じの場合が多い
The situation ③ usually happens when the condition ① is met.

②=①の方が=FLAT意識で臨んだ時の方が
When and especially when ①, rather than any other situations.

This is my understanding and I might be wrong.
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby tokyotower » Sat 03.24.2012 4:08 am

Thanks for the examples..
So the word 'listening' it's correct?
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby Hyperworm » Sat 03.24.2012 8:37 am

In which context?

tokyotower wrote:when I listening to it with a 'flat' mind
"Listen" is wrong here, the sentence does not ever say "listen to with a flat mind" (FLAT意識で聴く).
If you don't understand this, you haven't spent enough time reading yangmuye's last post and working through the sentence structure methodically.

yangmuye wrote: ③=後で聴くといい感じだ
I feel good if/when I listen to it afterward
"Listen" is correct here.
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby tokyotower » Mon 03.26.2012 7:42 pm

Sorry, I still don't understand.
In the japanese sentence I posted, there' s the word 'to listen'.

Someone else said that it's wrong to use the word 'listen'

But I still see the word listen in Japanese, so it should be correct to translate that word ...

sorry I'm not quite full understand yet . :(

I only know that there's that word...

FLAT意識で臨んだ時の方が後で聴くといいかんじの場合がおおい。
In most cases I have good feelings when I listen to it later with a flat
mind ('relaxed mind')
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 03.26.2012 8:07 pm

This has been decisively answered already. You do realize that NileCat is a native speaker, and so pretty much certain to have the correct interpretation of the sentence?

Just because the term 'flat mind' and the verb 'to listen' appear in the sentence does not mean the phrase 'listen with a flat mind' appears in the sentence.

(and I wouldn't say 'flat mind' appears in the sentence at all, as 意識 doesn't really mean mind, more like 'awareness' or 'consciousness', but that's splitting hairs compared to the problem in front of us, which is to say, trying to drag an adverbial phrase away from one verb and apply it to another verb in a totally different clause.)

NileCat wrote:
tokyotower wrote:FLAT意識で臨んだ時の方が後で聴くといいかんじの場合がおおい。
In most cases there's good feelings when you listening to it later with flat
mind ('relaxed mind')

No. He says that it works when he creates his music with ‘flat mind’ (in a straightforward manner, I guess).


(and as that's not actually what was written, let me quote the correct text that NileCat provided us, just to be sure.)
フラットな意識で臨んだ時の方が後で聴くと良い感じの場合が多い。


I would say,
'When I approach it with flat awareness, then often I feel good about it when I listen to it later."

Edit:
On second thought, if yangmue's detailed explanation didn't help, my more verbose but less detailed one may not help either, so let me add another example. I'm writing this myself, so forgive me if my Japanese is incorrect.
急いで帰った後でビールを飲むの場合が多い。
急いで帰った後でビールを飲むとさっぱりするの場合が多い。
急いで帰った時の方が後でビールを飲むとさっぱりするの場合が多い。

In any of these sentences do you think I'm drinking my beer in a hurry... ?
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby yangmuye » Tue 03.27.2012 12:58 am

急いで帰った後(は)、ビールを飲む場合が多い。
急いで帰った後(は)、ビールを飲むとさっぱりする場合が多い。
急いで帰った時の方が、後でビールを飲むとさっぱりする場合が多い。

I'm not familiar with the usage of “後”, forgive me if I had correct these sentences incorrectly.

It seems that you have changed the structures in the first two sentences.
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Re: Please, I'm becoming crazy to correct to translate this.

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Tue 03.27.2012 1:49 am

yangmuye wrote:急いで帰った後(は)、ビールを飲む場合が多い。
急いで帰った後(は)、ビールを飲むとさっぱりする場合が多い。
急いで帰った時の方が、後でビールを飲むとさっぱりする場合が多い。

I'm not familiar with the usage of “後”, forgive me if I had correct these sentences incorrectly.

It seems that you have changed the structures in the first two sentences.

Ah, you're certainly correct that the の I had in there was simply mistaken, thank you for pointing that out.

I do, however, believe that my あとで is grammatically correct, though I'm not sure if 後は (which I don't doubt is also gramatically correct) changes any implications or tone, or not.

ALC has a -lot- of 後で examples, of course: http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E5%BE%8C%E3%81%A7
(although a number of them are false hits on words with a 後 suffix, cases of 前後で and so on, but still, there are both 名詞の後で and 動詞後で examples.)

I don't know how useful they are when both languages are second languages, and I don't know if there's a Chinese equivalent of ALC. (Technically that JE database is 英辞郎 so maybe there's a 漢辞郎?)

I think, 「帰ってから」 would be more normal, but I was trying to follow the original example. Still, I wonder if you are right that for some reason 後で can not be used as I did. If not, I would like to know so for certain, and the reasons for it.
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