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3000 words by New years or bust

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3000 words by New years or bust

Postby Stefan » Mon 03.26.2012 12:22 am

so thats my goal in the subject.

3000+ words and 1000 thousand kanji <~~~(up to 6th grade I believe)

before new year`s day next year. how do you guys believe i should study?? quantity a day?? frequency?? hours a day??

any and all assistance,tips, strategies and all in very much valued :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree: :colonthree:
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby Shiroisan » Mon 03.26.2012 1:49 am

...That entirely depends on how much you know right now, no?

教えてください。
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby furrykef » Mon 03.26.2012 8:05 am

It could be easy or tough depending on what you count as a word. Certainly, learning a hundred katakana words is not as hard as learning a hundred kanji words.

As for arranging your study times, I recommend not worrying about any particular yearly (or monthly, or weekly) goal in arranging your study times and just do as much as you can without burning out. If you feel pressure mounting, you should ease up or (if you're at all like me) you will have something of a breakdown for a while. If you're studying using a flash card program like Anki (which I recommend), you should also take care not to create more cards than you can handle, or they will pile up and you will get a huge backlog. I have had to deal with that problem several times and it is not at all pleasant. Thankfully, I've been getting better at pacing myself with Anki. On the other hand, when you know you can pile on more without a problem, just do it.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby bouncingbelly » Mon 03.26.2012 8:31 am

use Heisig's remembering the kanji! it's the best.


and I use a program called Anki (it's a free flashcard program that you just download off here: http://ankisrs.net/ ) Anki has flashcard decks from users that you can use for studying kanji, grammar, vocab, whatever.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby yangmuye » Mon 03.26.2012 11:22 am

Normally a Chinese learner are required will memorize 3000 English words in less than one month, that is , 100~200 words a day. They usually spend two hours or more. One for new words, another one for review.

I asked some people who is learning Japanese, they said the time spent to memorize 50 words ranged from 3~20 minutes, depending on the hardness of the words. The more words you have known, the faster you will do. As difficult words are almost all compound words and 音読 words, you need to spend little time to know the meaning and spelling.

The only problems is, you have to spend much more time to know how to use these words correctly (if you want to be a “master”).

I haven't recited any words on purpose before. If I went to Japan for study next year, I would have to recite words and tell you my experience.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby QuakerBits » Wed 03.28.2012 6:27 pm

I'm in the same boat. Maybe not 3000 words, but around 2,000 at least.

I did just find a verrrrrrry helpful site over the weekend, renshuu.org. Not sure if you know it, but it's very very helpful, IMO.

hope that helps.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby Stefan » Sat 03.31.2012 3:00 am

@quakerbits

頑張ろう. a great place I found was at http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/

@yangmuye

Wow that's amazing 50 words in up to 20 minutes. is that daily??

Thank you all for your feedback i'll probably make a response post to this by the end of the year to let everyone if i succeeded or not. Probably an update hear and there about progress in all.

If anybody any has any other info or great tips pleaseeeeeeeeeeee feel free!!
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby yangmuye » Sat 03.31.2012 10:45 am

Wow that's amazing 50 words in up to 20 minutes. is that daily??

Hi, I got a word book and tested my speed just now.
I think it's very feasible, at least for a Chinese man, to know 50 Japanese words in 20 minutes.
Here “To Know” means “to know the spelling, the accent and just one meaning”.
We have some advantages.

i'll probably make a response post to this by the end of the year

I doubt if one year is too long for a plan. Even one month is quite a very long period to hold on. When you start, you will know it's really a challenge to persist in doing thing you don't like for even two weeks.

If you have enough time and don't need to work or go to school, you can use three hour a day to know 200 words, that is, 1500 words in a week. If 200 is too many, you can try 100 each day for the first week.

Don't spend too much time on a word, just repeat it many times instead.
No matter how hard you try, you will probably forget 3/4 of them after 12 hours, unless you are a genius.

You have to review it after half a day, on the 2nd day, after half a weak, after a week, after half a month, and after a month.( 0.5* 2^x days, where x=1,2,3,4,...)
I think the time spent on review may be 5 times longer than that on learning new words.

I saw some word books published in China have a separated list under each page with a small box □ before each word, so that you can easily check them with a pencil without seeing anything else.

EDIT:
Here is a time table for reference. As I have memorized 3000 English words once in winter holiday, it worked. Of course, 3000 words is not enough at all. It's said that
the vocabulary size of an average native-English-speaking university student is about 17,000 word families (a word family being a baseword together with its derived forms, e.g. happy, unhappy, happiness), or as many as 40,000 different word types.
:sweatdrop: :sweatdrop:
What is inspiring is that ,the the vocabulary size of N1 is only 10,000 words(words, not word families. あくる あける あく あけ あかす あかし あかい あからむ あきらめる あきらか あきらめ are all different words). :dance: :dance:
Spoiler:
The 1st and 2nd reviews are as hard as learning new words.

#day | new words | reviews(1st, 2nd, 3rd) | reviews
1 200
2 200 + (1)
3 200 + (1,2)
4 200 + (2,3)
5 200 + (1,3,4)
6 200 + (2,4,5)
7 200 + (3,5,6)
8 200 + (4,6,7) + (1)
9 200 + (5,7,8) + (2)
10 200 + (6,8,9) + (3)
11 200 + (7,9,10) + (4)
12 200 + (8,10,11) + (5)
13 200 + (9,11,12) + (6)
14 200 + (10,12,13) + (7)
15 (11,13,14) + (1)
16 (12,14) + (2)
17 (13) + (3)
...


頑張れ
Last edited by yangmuye on Sat 03.31.2012 3:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby Shiroisan » Sat 03.31.2012 2:23 pm

It may be theoretically possible to insert vast numbers of words into your short term memory at once. Just as if you were cramming for a test. However, don't think for one second that any of those words will remain in your long term memory. And by "long term" I don't even mean longer than a week.

If you memorized 200 words 1 day then moved onto 200 new words the next day, and so forth for 1 week. You could bet your ass that each day you'd be forgetting many old words in replace of the new ones you learnt, and you'd most likely fail testing yourself on 1400 words on the last day.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby yangmuye » Sat 03.31.2012 3:01 pm

If you want to attend a vocabulary test, the method won't work. :cry:
But it helps a lot when you read book. You won't have to look up dictionaries many times any more.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Sat 03.31.2012 10:40 pm

Shiroisan wrote:It may be theoretically possible to insert vast numbers of words into your short term memory at once. Just as if you were cramming for a test. However, don't think for one second that any of those words will remain in your long term memory. And by "long term" I don't even mean longer than a week.

If you memorized 200 words 1 day then moved onto 200 new words the next day, and so forth for 1 week. You could bet your ass that each day you'd be forgetting many old words in replace of the new ones you learnt, and you'd most likely fail testing yourself on 1400 words on the last day.

This is apparently not actually true, as there are a number of people on learnanylanguage that use wordlists to memorize words, and while they do need to review them at intervals, they don't forget all of them. Of course, these are mostly people learning their 3rd, 4th, or higher European language so they know their own learning strengths, probably know at least one cognate for the majority of new words, etc.

Using an SRS and simple vocabulary cards, I imagine many people could sustain 50-100 words a day. I use Anki (an SRS) but I can't get that rate simply because I prefer good context for my new vocabulary. Just picking out a sentence from among JE dictionaries/alc/tatoeba and turning it into a card takes several minutes. I'm not going to spend the 300-400 minutes a day needed to make 100 new cards a day. Plus my reviews take longer than simple vocabulary cards - reading a sentence takes longer than identifying a single word.

That makes it sound like I must be insane, if I know how to learn 100 words a day and choose to learn 10, but I find that the lack of depth of understanding in such rapid techniques to be frustrating. Being able to pop out a list of two or three likely English translations for a word is not the same as being able to read and understand it in context. I'll end up puzzling over it and working out in the middle of reading or watching a scene later. (It's worst, actually, in audio form... if you get lost in thought for just a couple minutes in a media broadcast, catching back onto what's going on is very difficult. Books have the decency to let you work out your thought and will wait for you to continue reading.)

If I later learn Chinese or Korean, I might seriously make a go at wordlists or plain vocab cards because the Asian languages have at least as many cognates within their group as European languages do.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby Stefan » Mon 04.02.2012 2:33 am

I've made a plan for how to accomplish my goal.

15 words a day for 6 days which is 90 words a week (Sunday is review and testing then rest. Plus I live with Japanese person so practicing it in conversation won't be hard to implicate) Mon~Sat 3 hours a day 1 hour and a half during the day and again before I go to bed.

using software and websites like anki, Lang-8.com,jim breen, evernote etc,
making at the very least 10 sentences minimum per word.

The only problem I truly have is Time Dedication. And that is entirely on me.

My vocab consist between Japanese the people use on a daily basis (from my roommate and the japaense people around me, Jlpt, from my own translations of modern manga, japanese word of the day from this website--->http://www.transparent.com/wotd/today/japanese.html, and some textbooks


for 39 weeks (That's how many weeks we have left this year at least starting tomorrow.)

If I did this I'll learn (in theory) 3,510 words

Tell me what you guys think.

I'll any form of criticism. Thank you. :dance: :dance: :dance: :colonthree:
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby yangmuye » Mon 04.02.2012 5:35 am

15 words a day for 6 days which is 90 words a week (Sunday is review and testing then rest. Plus I live with Japanese person so practicing it in conversation won't be hard to implicate) Mon~Sat 3 hours a day 1 hour and a half during the day and again before I go to bed.

It's good to have a plan.
But, I still strongly suggest that you could review them at intervals.(0.5d, 1d, 2d, 4d, 8d,...).
Based on my experience, you will forget most things after a day, if the things you have tried to memorize are completely “new” to you. After 3 reviews, you will remember them for quite a long time.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 04.02.2012 10:40 am

yangmue, if he's using Anki to review, then reviewing at staged and increasing intervals is automatically scheduled, this is the meaning of Spaced Repetition System.

More details are here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition_system

Stefan, I'm not sure what 'making ten sentences per word' means. If you mean you're going to practice 10 different sentences with people, that's fine.

If you mean you're going to put 10 sentences into Anki, that's going a little overboard - the only words that need ten sentences are the ones that have ten distinct different usages, of which there are only a few such words.

Normally I only add one sentence to Anki, but a -lot- of words have both a concrete meaning and an abstract or metaphorical meaning. I try to add sentences to Anki using the more concrete meaning, but in cases where I could never guess the abstract meaning from the concrete one, I add two sentences.

When I add each sentence, I usually create both a kana card and a kanji card at the same time, but I don't start reviewing the kanji card until a few days later (using sibling delay).

Anyway, in general your plan sounds fine. But don't be afraid to change your plan if it's not working well.
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Re: 3000 words by New years or bust

Postby yangmuye » Mon 04.02.2012 11:18 am

SomeCallMeChris, I downloaded and installed the software. It seemed very functional and not to be a native Windows program.


In fact, I once planed to create a similar program to memorize English words(or Japanese words, depending where I will go) and Chinese. (Is it strange that a Chinese man needs to memorize Chinese on purpose? :lol: )
The wiki article is very interesting. Thank you a lot for the information.
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