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‘ん’ Ending Question

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‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby Asevela » Fri 04.27.2012 6:09 pm

I’ve seen this in a few places, and I haven’t been able to find anything to explain this:

悲劇の中に出でてる聖杖の賢者…
その杖、我らを護る盾とならん!

This is an incantation that causes the units to not take any damage in the game that it’s from (here’s a link if it helps with anything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnr2tdX1AlM). Because of that I’ve translated it as:

“Wise man with the holy staff appearing in the midst of tragedy,
thy staff shall be the shield that protects us!”

The problem is that according to everything I’ve found ならん comes from ならない, which would make it mean “doesn’t become the shield,” but that doesn’t make sense with the effect. And there’s a bunch of other incantations that use this ending in the same way.

The only thing I can think of is that it may be archaic based on the grammar of other incantations, but that still doesn’t tell me what it’s supposed to do.

Thank you in advance for your help.
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby Ranja » Fri 04.27.2012 10:35 pm

That is one of the archaic particles.

む(ん)=will (shall) : future speculation
らむ: present speculation
けむ:past speculation
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby Asevela » Sat 04.28.2012 12:44 am

Really, it’s a particle?

Then, just using なる again as an example, the present speculation would be なららむ, and the past would be ならけむ, is that correct?

Also, why is the future one both む and ん?
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby yangmuye » Sat 04.28.2012 6:45 am

Really, it’s a particle?

Its a suffix like ず,れば,れる,etc. rather than a particle.
It's called 助動詞 in 学校文法.

the present speculation would be なららむ. the past would be ならけむ, is that correct?

Not correct.
Possible combinations are ならむ なれらむ なりけむ and なるらむ
Besides, む/ん is still alive in modern Japanese, especially in formal or dramatic expressions.
けむ and らむ are not.

Also, why is the future one both む and ん?

It's written as む, but pronounced as ん.
ん is relatively a new かな.
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby Ranja » Sat 04.28.2012 6:58 am

Asevela wrote:Really, it’s a particle?

Then, just using なる again as an example, the present speculation would be なららむ, and the past would be ならけむ, is that correct?

Also, why is the future one both む and ん?


No. the present speculation is なるらむ and the past is なりけむ.

Rules:
らむ appends to the 終止形(plain form) of a verb except ら変型活用 verbs.
(In the case of a ら変型活用 verb, らむ appends to the 連体形.)

けむ appends to the 連用形(Ren'you kei) of a verb.
Last edited by Ranja on Sat 04.28.2012 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby Asevela » Sat 04.28.2012 7:26 pm

Okay, now it’s making much more sense.

I’ve got two more questions, then. Are けむ and らむ also pronounced けん and らん, and is む attached to the same form as ない? I don’t think I’ve seen it with anything besides なる and 一段 verbs, so I’m not sure.
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby Ranja » Sun 04.29.2012 5:52 am

> and is む attached to the same form as ない?

Yes, む is attached to the 未然形(Mizen kei) - the same as ない。

いざ、走らん(formal, future)
もう、走らない (negation)
もう、走らん (colloquial, negation)

> Are けむ and らむ also pronounced けん and らん

Yes, it is said to be so since around the 10th century, I guess.
But, as yangmuye-san said, they are not used in modern Japanese anymore.
(And he is right. む is not a particle but a 助動詞[auxiliary verb].)

前の世にも御契りや深かりけむ、世になく清らかなる、玉の男御子さへ生まれ給ひぬ
(Maeno yonimo on-chigiriya hukakariken, yoninaku kiyorakanaru tamano onokomikosae umaretamainu)
(From "The Tale of Genji". Don't ask me its translation. :D )
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby yangmuye » Sun 04.29.2012 8:51 am

Asevela wrote:Really, it’s a particle?

yangmuye wrote:Its a suffix like ず,れば,れる,etc. rather than a particle.
It's called 助動詞 in 学校文法.

Ranja wrote:as yangmuye-san said, (...) む is not a particle but a 助動詞[auxiliary verb].

um...The question is rather complex.
I said It's called 助動詞 in 学校文法, it does mean it's an auxiliary verb.
Auxiliary verb is 補助動詞 in 学校文法. :sweatdrop:
Anyway, knowing the category can't help you much.

Asevela wrote:I’ve got two more questions, then. Are けむ and らむ also pronounced けん and らん, and is む attached to the same form as ない? I don’t think I’ve seen it with anything besides なる and 一段 verbs, so I’m not sure.

It's seems that your questions are even beyond the scope of N1. (Though I'm not sure.)
大辞林 wrote:幸多からんことを祈る
政治家たらんとする者は
あらん限りの力
まさに出発せんとする時

As I said, む is a suffix, so we can call the form it attached to the む form. :lol:
In modern Japanese, it's generally the same as ず. In Old Japanese, it's even more complex.
多から

あら
Occasionally you can see it written む, which clearly shows that it's not negative.
(There are also many people who wrongly write あらぬ限りの力.)
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby Asevela » Tue 05.01.2012 12:18 am

Yangmuye, I meant it the way Ranja answered, but thank you for expanding on that. And aside from the first question this is mostly for curiosity's sake. I’m definitely not good enough for N1.

Thank you both for your help.
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby suejak » Sat 09.01.2012 2:01 am

Hey, thanks from me too guys. I actually passed N1 a year ago and I didn't know this. Cool!
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Re: ‘ん’ Ending Question

Postby furrykef » Wed 09.05.2012 5:33 pm

Oh joy. I instinctively read ならん as ならぬ/ならない and now I find it's some completely different thing I've never heard of before. Is there any end to the weird stuff this language has to throw at me? :P
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