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よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

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よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby thatsmymilkshake » Mon 01.21.2013 4:09 am

Hello everyone! :) I’m Schyler. I currently live in St Heliers, New Zealand, although I was born and raised in Melbourne. I’m 17 (I know, young), and an art student. I hate to call myself an “aspiring” artist, because I’m not “aspiring”, I AM an artist. I draw, paint, photograph, or render practically every minute of every day. Recently, I actually got accepted into Whitecliffe University, which is a private art university here in Auckland, for traditional arts and graphic design. Yay! I’m so excited! :D

As for Japanese, all in all I’ve been attempting to learn for quite a long time now. A lot of it has been self-teaching, which hasn’t proven to be the best idea. I don’t like to blame anything on my ADD, but it seems to get the best of me sometimes.  I didn’t start learning Japanese because of anime or manga, as is the reason for a lot of people starting out, but instead, the culture is what drew me in. When I was little (tch, I’m still little, eh?), my grandpa introduced me to a friend of his, from Fukuoka. His name was Nawa. He was really old, but a very, very sweet man, who taught me a lot about life that’s really helped me through everything. He told me all about Fukuoka and Japan and his life in the beautiful country of the rising sun. He even taught me some Japanese!

- I just want to take a second here to say thank you, so, so much, Nawa. You were the best uncle I’ve ever, and will ever, have – as well as an amazing and inspirational friend to me. I’ll never forget the way you snorted every time you laughed, or the weird way your bones creaked. Rest in much-deserved peace, Nawa.

Anyway, after we got close, I started getting more and more interested in Japan. After a while, I wanted to learn the language. It was really easy to learn the Kana with Nawa there, so I had those down really quickly. When he passed away, things got harder, though. I wanted to learn and experience more, but for some reason, I got into this rut, where I was unable to think of anything new, or remember anything… it was really terrible.

Now, hopefully, I’m back to being motivated to learn Japanese! I’ve started learning Kanji, which, I admit, is a bit late, and I’m basically re-learning everything, from the bottom up. I hope to learn a lot from you guys, as friends, acquiantances, and fellow students! Ganbarimashou! :P

こんにちはみな!スカイラは。ニュウジイランドのセントHeliersにすんでいる。しかしオーストラリアのメルボルンはしゅっしんです。17歳だ。芸術の学生。「こころざせアーチスト」とよんでいない。アーチストです!毎日、描くとペイントと写真とレンダー。最近、Whitecliffe大学で受け入れた。オークランドでWhitecliffe大学は私立大学。伝統的な芸術とグラフィックデザインのためにいきます。わぁ!ワクワクしています!

- Sorry, that’s all I know how to write in Japanese for this… and I’m rather busy at the moment.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this! I’m a bit of a scatter-brain, eh? Haha!どうも! じゃね! :colonthree:

P.S - 私の日本語はいいじゃない・・・明らかに・・・。ごめんなさい! :sweatdrop:

P.S - My Japanese isn't that good... obviously... sorry! :sweatdrop:
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 01.21.2013 12:11 pm

どうぞよろしく。TJPへようこそ!
Part of the trick with ADD is to work with it and not against it. Don't study in ways you can't concentrate on, find ways of doing things in the language that let you hyperfocus if you can.
And in any case, don't worry about it much. You already know the kana and some basic vocabulary and grammar and some of the kanji. Learning a language isn't a race (it doesn't have a finish line for one thing!), but if it -were- a race... if you consider your age... you actually have quite a head start!
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby thatsmymilkshake » Mon 01.21.2013 8:14 pm

@SomeCallMeChris

Haha thanks! I actually feel like I'm a bit slow as far as how much I know and how much I should know by now. I mean, there's a 14-year old British girl on Youtube who's practically fluent (and has only been studying for about 2 years or so), but has no more immersion to Japanese than I do. I guess people really do learn differently, some faster than others. I've tried flashcards, but I'm terrible with remembering, and I they just become scattered into random categories or mixed, even with Anki. I've tried drawing out manga sketches that contain Kanji and the vocabulary, since I thought the pictures would help me remember a bit better... everything I've tried doesn't work. Mostly because I can't focus. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely motivated and I absolutely love learning the language... it's just the remembering to actually stay on track and not try to learn things so quickly that really wrecks it all.

I'm not going to assume you have ADD, but you talk as if you know some ways that might help. Any idea of some useful ways to study for someone with attention issues? I mean, I have probably 100 or so folders on my PC just filled with different tips on grammar, vocab, and Kanji... but I have no idea how to organise it all. ;A; If only there was a programme that could do that for me. Almost like a notepad... but organised and in a way that everything could be accessed quickly. Haha.

Well. Sorry about the novel I've written in reply. Thanks for the tips, mate! :D :P
「君が美しい・・・本当に。・・・私の美しいネコ。ペットーペットーペットー!」 .*.
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Tue 01.22.2013 12:27 am

Yeah, I'm probably ADD judging by my understanding of it and the opinions of my friends who have psych or social science backgrounds, but I haven't gone to get a formal diagnosis (no point, really. I don't want meds for it and can work on coping strategies without a diagnosis!)

Anyways, I'd suggest that you install rikaichan for mouseover translations in your web browser. Then you can read stuff that interests you. Just remember that the rikaichan pop-ups are from EDICT which is not a full dictionary, but more of a massive glossary. (I get my real J-E definitions from dic.yahoo.co.jp).

The way I learn is basically, find something I really want to read/watch/listen to and do so until a word I can't understand bothers me enough. Look up said word. Add it to Anki, but, when I add it to Anki, I don't add just the word, I add a sentence - the one I found it in, or one in the dictionary, or one on ALC. (I used to prefer only sentences with an English translation, but I don't worry much anymore if I'm confident I fully understand the Japanese sentence.)
My Anki cards are in pairs, the first one shows the sentence with the kana version of the word highlighted. Guess, click, rate myself. The second card shows me the kanji version of the word, and I have to type the answer. 'Sibling delay' keeps the cards from showing up right next to each other.

Anyways, I find - studying from word lists is boring and ineffective. Studying words in isolation is boring and ineffective. Studying words from kanji and not making myself type/write the spelling guarantees that I'll mess up long/short vowels or lose the little っ glottal stops. So while finding a sentence for each word can be a little tedious, I actually have a sentence to read when I do my cards, not just a word to quiz. Works much better for me.

Anyhow, looking up words every few words gets boring too, so, usually I have several books/movies/shows around that I'm interested in, one that I look up words in and treat carefully and when that gets tiring I go to something else and just watch/read and absorb what I can.

I haven't done much of this, but, a lot of people find success with the L-R method - listening-reading. Find a source with English translation, Japanese text and Japanese audio. Read the English translation (say a chapter at a time.) Read Japanese text while listening to Japanese audio. Refer to English translation again on a line-by-line basis when confused. You can try that with the materials listed under 'ebooks' on this site. If it works for you, you may not have to explicitly study vocabulary. People report success learning a language this way without ever using a flashcard or SRS.

Also, check out erin.ne.jp - the site won't 'teach' much exactly, as the grammar lessons and such are pretty weak, but I found it just really useful for getting my listening and reading comprehension up by going through the videos with Japanese text displayed and turning on the English text only when I needed to, similar to the L-R techniques. I didn't add anything to Anki from it, but I've been back now and again to rewatch the videos.

Songs, btw, are good vocabulary builders, although the grammar is a little broken sometimes in Japanese just as in English. I put Japanese music I like on my iphone and put the lyrics into the 'lyrics' field in iTunes, and I read along the lyrics sometimes. Every now and then I take a song I'm really liking and look up every word that I'm unsure of. Even if I don't anki them, I'm going to hear those words again a lot so they often stick.

If none of that works, well, just keep looking for something that you can do with the language that holds your attention - if you continue not to do flash cards, then especially look for things that give you repeated exposure to the same material and let you cement some vocabulary (songs, movies, ikebana documentaries, whatever, as long as you can watch/read/listen again.)

Whatever else, just keep at it... learn a little every day and you'll get there!
「塵も積もれば、山となる」
Last edited by SomeCallMeChris on Tue 01.22.2013 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby phreadom » Tue 01.22.2013 6:39 pm

SomeCallMeChris wrote:(I get my real J-E definitions from dic.yahoo.jp).


You mean http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/ ? :think:
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Dictionaries: (Was: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!)

Postby jimbreen » Tue 01.22.2013 8:20 pm

SomeCallMeChris wrote:Anyways, I'd suggest that you install rikaichan for mouseover translations in your web browser. Then you can read stuff that interests you. Just remember that the rikaichan pop-ups are from EDICT which is not a full dictionary, but more of a massive glossary.


Would you like to explain the difference between a "full dictionary" and a "massive glossary"? (Glossary is usually defined as something like "an alphabetical list of technical terms in some specialized field of knowledge".)

(I get my real J-E definitions from dic.yahoo.jp).


I think that's "dic.yahoo.co.jp".

Let's put it to a test or two. I'll pretend I'm a new Japanese student and I come across いただける. So I go to dic.yahoo.co.jp, tick 和英 and paste it in and press 検索. The result:

いただけるに一致する情報はみつかりませんでした。

Trying EDICT via WWWJDIC, I get:

いただける 《頂ける; 戴ける》 (v1,vi) (1) (uk) (See 頂く) to receive (potential); (2) to be pretty good; to be exquisite; to be approvable
as well as an example sentence and a link to a squillion more.

Trying "検索" gets a bit further. The yahoo site (actually for Japanese-English it uses the "Shogakukan Progressive" dictionary, which has approx 90k entries) has:

けんさく【検索】 / reference; 〔コンピュータでの〕a search ((for)); retrieval ((of))
plus some compounds (検索エンジン, etc.) and a couple of sentences

WWWJDIC gives:

検索 【けんさく】 (n,vs) looking up (e.g. a word in a dictionary); retrieval (e.g. data); searching for; referring to
as well as a batch of compounds (あいまい検索, etc.), a sample sentence and link to several others.

Which one is providing "real J-E definitions"?

FWIW, I use the yahoo dictionary site quite a bit, mainly to get to the 大辞泉, etc. 国語字典. For a really comprehensive online JE dictionary the best by far is the big Kenkyusha at their "KOD" site. You have to pay a subscription for it, but you get a simultaneous lookup service for several dictionaries and glossaries.

Cheers

Jim
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby phreadom » Tue 01.22.2013 10:39 pm

Jim, perhaps you could help clarify the definition issue that showed up in this thread: http://thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewto ... t=#p175135

That's what led me to also think that perhaps the Yahoo dictionary was more extensive or something? :think:

NileCat's definition fits nicely with the example text they were working with, but the dictionary entries (both on Yahoo and on WWWJDIC) don't seem to match that.

NileCat wrote:That is 甘え, a noun.
It describes an attitude to kid oneself and ignore the reality.
:)


Thanks for the clarifications. :)
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby NileCat » Wed 01.23.2013 12:04 am

Hi phreadom,

You might want to read this wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence

Since this book was published in the early 70's, the word 'amae' has become very common when we describe some immature attitude, however, as the article explains, it was originally a kind of "buzz word" and I won't be surprised to find some proper dictionary doesn't have the definition even today. It is not a 'slang' , though... It's regarded as a kind of...psychological term in its original sense. Well, does my explanation make sense? :(
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby jimbreen » Wed 01.23.2013 1:04 am

phreadom wrote:Jim, perhaps you could help clarify the definition issue that showed up in this thread: http://thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewto ... t=#p175135

That's what led me to also think that perhaps the Yahoo dictionary was more extensive or something? :think:

NileCat's definition fits nicely with the example text they were working with, but the dictionary entries (both on Yahoo and on WWWJDIC) don't seem to match that.

NileCat wrote:That is 甘え, a noun.
It describes an attitude to kid oneself and ignore the reality.
:)


When I looked at it this morning, I decided the JMdict/EDICT entry showing up in WWWJDIC was a bit too specific, so I have changed it to: "lack of self-reliance; depending on others (see 甘える・あまえる)".

I'm not sure I agree completely with NileCat's explanation. It's more about dependence.

Jim
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby jimbreen » Wed 01.23.2013 1:12 am

NileCat wrote:You might want to read this wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence

Since this book was published in the early 70's, the word 'amae' has become very common when we describe some immature attitude, however, as the article explains, it was originally a kind of "buzz word" and I won't be surprised to find some proper dictionary doesn't have the definition even today. It is not a 'slang' , though... It's regarded as a kind of...psychological term in its original sense. Well, does my explanation make sense? :(


Well, "immature attitude", and "lack of self-reliance; depending on others" are really saying the same thing. The new Kenkyusha (2003+) adds: "〔子供の〕 attention-seeking (behavior); making up 《to its mother》", which indicates that some dictionaries are tracking popular usage.

I wouldn't make too much of Doi's book - it's been panned by a lot of people as 日本人論 nonsense, including by people I know and trust such as Yoshio Sugimoto and Ross Mouer.

Cheers

Jim
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Wed 01.23.2013 1:24 am

EDICT has always reminded me of the 'glossary' in the back of a language learning textbook, only one that has grown to a giant size. I do love EDICT for its enormous number of entries, and it's true that many of those entries are no longer simply a short list of words. The example sentences, in any case, don't appear with rikaichan.

The yahoo dictionary is both Progressive -and- New Century, although progressive is usually the better entry. It certainly has nowhere near the scope of EDICT, and entries are of inconsistent quality, but by and large the entries provide the meanings for the word still used in modern day Japanese and a variety of illustrative example sentences.

Rikaichan will give,
Code: Select all
 こぼれる 《零れる(P); 溢れる》 (v1,vi) (1) (uk) to spill; to fall out of; to overflow; (2) to peek through; to become visible (although normally not); (3) to escape (of a smile, tear, etc.); (P)

While Progressive will give,
Code: Select all

こぼれる【▲零れる】
I

1 〔漏れ落ちる〕spill

      牛乳が食卓の上にこぼれた
Some milk spilled on the table.

      手から硬貨がこぼれ (落ち) た
Some coins fell out of my hand.

      涙がほおにこぼれ (落ち) た
Tears rolled [ran] down her cheeks.

      桜の花びらがはらはらとこぼれ (落ち) た
Cherry blossom petals fluttered down.

      水が床にこぼれている
Someone has spilled water on the floor.

      床に豆がこぼれていた
Beans were scattered on the floor.

      ボールが彼のグローブからこぼれた
The ball dropped [popped/fell] out of his glove.

2 〔あふれる〕overflow

      浴槽から水がこぼれた
The bathtub overflowed.

      湯がふきこぼれている
The water is boiling over.

II

1 〔もれて出る〕

      彼女の唇からむせび泣きの声がこぼれた
Faint sobs escaped her lips.

      春の陽が木々の間をこぼれた
The spring sunshine streamed through the branches of the trees.

2 〔現れ出る〕

      ソファーに横たわる女から色気がこぼれていた
The woman lying on the sofa was overflowing [oozing] with sex appeal.

This above example also shows the unfortunate weakness of Progressive in sometimes simply providing a J-J definition with a J-E example sentence. Not all its entries are great, and some are downright weak. (But if you're on the yahoo site, you can easily fall back to New Century for a second opinion, or jump over to a 国語 dictionary if you're at that level.) OTOH, if you have Rikaichan installed than EDICT's definitions will pop up and help you decipher Progressive's definitions.

WWWJDIC does add 2 example sentences compared to rikai (or jisho.org), which is nice. I like example sentences and EDICT used to not have any at all (unless you count searching the Tanaka corpus from a web interface that also searches EDICT, which I don't.)

I'm sorry if comparing EDICT to a glossary or using the word 'real' offended you, I was -trying- to use words that would briefly get the point across, not to start a huge debate about what a dictionary is. My comment wasn't meant to be addressed to the creator of EDICT as a personal remark. In any case, I think Progressive and EDICT both have merits. And Kenkyusha is great - I used to have it on my now deceased electronic dictionary, but it's not freely available.
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby Ongakuka » Wed 01.23.2013 4:04 am

For me, Jim Breen's site was indispensable for learning Japanese. Out of everything I've tried, I recommend it the most to Japanese learners... until you're able to cope with Japanese definitions of words. At that point you have to wean yourself out of using dictionaries with English definitions and rely entirely on online 国語辞典. I still use EDICT for various other purposes because it is versatile and has many functions.
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Re: よろしくね!Nice to meet you!

Postby Ongakuka » Wed 01.23.2013 4:08 am

Where are my manners. Schylerさん, it's a pleasure to have you in our community! Do not ever think about rate of progress, just try to enjoy studying and do it when you can :) your Japanese is great!
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