Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

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sampaguita
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Joined: Fri 02.18.2005 7:26 am

Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

Post by sampaguita » Fri 04.12.2013 1:19 am

I've read in another forum about the "neutral" and "exhaustive" が. The exhaustive が is something that follows は:

この傘はわたしが買った。

but that forum says that this is not a very good sentence as it sounds like "It is I who bought the umbrella." It can be recast in the passive form, but since there is no misfortune involved, is it really better to use

この傘は私に買われた。

or is it better to use the active form? Thanks a lot!

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hariharidax2
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Native language: japanese

Re: Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

Post by hariharidax2 » Fri 04.12.2013 3:07 am

この傘は私に買われた。
.. This is not good Japanese sentence.

この傘はわたしが買った。
.. It's more better.

この傘はわたしが買ったものです。
It's best sentence.


"私に買われた。"
.. This expression is not usually used.


この傘はわたしが買った。
Translate : This umbrella is I bought. ("what" falls out)

この傘はわたしが買ったものです。
Translate : This umbrella is what I bought.

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Ongakuka
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Re: Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

Post by Ongakuka » Fri 04.12.2013 3:19 am

but that forum says that this is not a very good sentence
That forum is wrong :)
なぜなら、おまえは・・・・・・人形だ

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Ranja
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Native language: Japanese

Re: Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

Post by Ranja » Fri 04.12.2013 11:05 am

Actually, there are some cases in which the passive form is used for misfortune.
But I don't think this is a general rule in Japanese.

For instance,

1. ピクニック(picnic)に いったが、雨にふられた(I got rained on.)
2. ハムスターが死んでいる(My hamster is dead)。ネコにやられたな。
3. きょう 楽器店に いった(I went to the musical instrument store today)が、あのギター(guitar)は もう なかった。だれかに買われてしまった らしい。

In the third example, in particular, the unluckiness is already being expressed by the word しまった, so I don't think the passive form is doing something here to express any sadness in this sentence.

Also,
この傘はわたしが買った(ものだ)
is perfectly fine in daily conversation.

sampaguita
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Joined: Fri 02.18.2005 7:26 am

Re: Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

Post by sampaguita » Sat 04.13.2013 1:43 am

Thanks for the replies, everyone! I have some more questions though:

1. When is it okay to use the passive form when no misfortune is implied? I've seen 使われる,  呼ばれる, and 言われる used and I don't think there was any suffering implied.

2. How do I know if there is misfortune implied or not?

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Ranja
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Native language: Japanese

Re: Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

Post by Ranja » Sat 04.13.2013 6:29 am

I might have given you a misguided impression.
I think you should forget about the relationship between the passive form and misfortune.
sampaguita wrote: 2. How do I know if there is misfortune implied or not?
Context, if I would say.

sampaguita
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri 02.18.2005 7:26 am

Re: Is the passive form always used for misfortune?

Post by sampaguita » Sun 04.14.2013 3:40 am

Ah, I see Ranja. Thank you!

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