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Offensive Term?

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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby coco » Thu 10.13.2005 5:35 am

Harisenbon wrote:

After talking with coco, I decided to do a little survey on my own. I don't live in Tokyo, so most of the people here (Gifu) are not very PC. I asked them what they thought of the word Jap. Almost all of them said that it was an abreviation for Japan, and were surprised to find out that it was deragatory. Some people even thought that the correct abreviation for Japan is jap, not JPN.


Harisanbonさんは、岐阜で調査をなさったとの事ですので、調査対象人数と、調査対象の年齢層、"derogatory" を日本語でどう阜サしたのか、是非ともお聞かせ下さい。
I’m really curious about your survey in Gifu.
How many people did you ask? How old are they?
and what word did you choose as "derogatory"?
Please let me know.

Harisanbonさん自らも目になさったのでご記憶かと思いますが、たとえ高校生であっても歴史を知っている日本人の高校生は “Jap”が不愉快であると発言しています。

何度もいいますが、この問題は非常に微妙ですので、調査対象に、年齢、教育水準、人権意識といった観点から偏りがある場合、それを付記しないと公正なものではなくなります。

Harisanbonさんは、日本の世代別人口分布をご存知でしょうか?
もしご存知なければ、以下のものをご参照下さい。総務省統計局の資料です。
http://www.stat.go.jp/data/jinsui/2004np/index.htm
Japが略語だと思っている日本人の割合はHarisenbon さんが、想像しておられるものとは、きっと異なるだろうと思います。

★閑話休題★
Harisenbonさんの発言にもみられるように、 "Jap" という言葉に抵抗のない日本人がいることは事実です。少ないとは思いますが、自らJapという言葉を使う日本人もいます。多くは若い世代です。
日本の大学生のなかには、日本とアメリカが戦争をしたことすら知らない人もいますので、Japに抵抗がないのかもしれません (真珠湾攻撃やサンフランシスコ講和条約の内容について知らないというのではなく、日本とアメリカが戦争をしたという『事実』さえし知らない人もいます。もちろん、これも全体の割合からすると少数ではありますが)

彼らは寛容なのか、勘違いをしているのか、鈍感なのか、私には分かりませんでしたが、Harisenbonさんの書き込みを読んだところ、単なる無知の可柏ォが高いことがわかり、ある意味ではホッと安堵しています。(また、その無知な人間が日本人の典型であるかのように受け取られかねない書き込みには、少々異論を差し挟まざるを得ません)

たしかに、侮蔑語である(あった)ことを知っていても、略語として定着しているのだからJapという言葉に目くじらを立てる必要はないと考える日本人もいます。そのため
「ジャップは 略語か侮蔑語か」という論議はしばしば日本でも起きます。
「ジャップは略語であり、他人に文句をいわれる筋合いではない」というのが、自ら「ジャップ」という言葉を使用する日本人の意見です。

以下、ジャップ使用派日本人の典型的な主張が折り込まれた興味深い記事をみつけましたので、興味がある方はご覧ください。記事は英語書かれています。

This article titled “When the JPNZ say JAP " is written in English. You will be able to know what Kind of people using "Jap", and what had happened after AT& T used “Jap” for nationwide ad.
http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/dialogue_opinion_letters/asakawa_JPNZ-JAP_1204.asp

ちなみに、「ジャップ」を国語辞典(Japanese --Japanese Dictionary) でひくと、「〔俗語〕欧米人、おもにアメリカ人が日本人を軽蔑(ケイベツ)して呼ぶ語」(学研) という説明が出ていますし、ネット上でも使用可狽ネ英和辞書でも Japについては「〔話〕〔軽蔑〕 =Japanese.」(三省堂)と出ています。

[small]謝辞: このスレッドが立って以来、Mystiqueさん、Richvhさんに多大なるご尽力を頂きました。ご多忙のところ、気の重くなるテーマにもかかわらず、根気強くおつきあい頂き、また多くの示唆を授けて下さったことに対し、心より御礼垂オ上げます。[/small]
編集:人口分布のリンク先を新しいものに修正しました。(17-11-06)
Last edited by coco on Fri 11.17.2006 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby Spaztick » Thu 10.13.2005 2:35 pm

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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby ayaito » Mon 01.02.2006 7:51 pm

"gaijin" basically means "odd person", referring to a foreigner. a while ago it was considered so odd to see a foreigner in japan speaking japanese that it was thought they were a spy, since hardly anyone else knew the language well enough to speak it.
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby mandolin » Mon 01.02.2006 8:27 pm

ayaito wrote:
"gaijin" basically means "odd person", referring to a foreigner. a while ago it was considered so odd to see a foreigner in japan speaking japanese that it was thought they were a spy, since hardly anyone else knew the language well enough to speak it.


No... gaijin is shortened from gaikokujin, which means "foreigner"

The kanji used is "Outside-country-person"

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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby spank » Mon 01.02.2006 9:09 pm

Hey, I have not read all these replies yet, but I'll get around to it.
Personally, some japanese get really offended if you call them "jap".
Although, I've never heard a british person become angry at being called a "brit", or a canadian at "canuck", or an american at "yank",i suppose they could be. We're not talking about race, we're talking about nations. So all this talk about "chinks, niggers, chiggers....", you can forget about it.

Anyways, at boarding school i lived with a 'jap' for 4 years, and one day i brought back some candy for us to eat.

The brand name of candy was called 'nips'. And believe me, i knew in advance that this would piss him off. He actually had the gall to write a letter to the candy company (in english) describing his national pride and how the company was flagrantly offending his people. The company sent a rebuttle claiming that if he got his head out of his ass and looked up the oxford english dictionary definitin of "nip", he wouldn't have anything to complain about. That was funny.

Anyways, in my own country, i have been called a 'gaijin' by japanese visiting here. WTF?! This is my country; they are the gaijin!! I explained this to them in rather coarse japanese. They didn't understand - I actually threatened them too, since they became quite rude and surly. Then i became rude and surly. Anyways, if anyone calls me a gaijin in my own country, i'm going to take umbrage and possibly draw blood...theirs!

:@
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby AJBryant » Mon 01.02.2006 10:16 pm

or an american at "yank",


While a common European nickname for Americans, all Americans are NOT "Yanks" or "Yankees." A whole buncha us from south of the Mason-Dixon line would vehemently fight those who would suggest we are "Yankees."

Sort of like people from Cardiff or Aberdeen -- call 'em English and see what happens. ;)

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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby spank » Tue 01.03.2006 3:40 am

So what is a yankee? Does it come from yankee doodle? It must have something to do with the american civil war and the confederate forces right? The flag? Please let me know.

Likewise, not all canadians are considered canucks, 'nucks, knuckleheads, quebecers, newfies, beavers, lumberjacks or eskimos. Its really geographically dependent.
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby Isao » Tue 01.03.2006 3:43 am

ayaito wrote:
"gaijin" basically means "odd person",...

I don't think so.
Gaijin is written as 外人. The first kanji "gai" means "outside" (soto) the latter just means "people" (hito). So, literally it must be "outsider", nothing to do with "odd person". Right ?
Last edited by Isao on Tue 01.03.2006 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby Harisenbon » Tue 01.03.2006 3:44 am

while I believe yanks trandionally means any American, within America it is a term (semi-deragatory, mostly in jest) for northerners: i.e. people above the mason dixon line.

Depending on how far south you go, and how vehemently the people you're talking to still believe that the south will rise again, the deragatoriness of the word can increase quite a lot. ;)
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby Infidel » Tue 01.03.2006 4:29 am

I was rather startled when a black lady insulted me by calling me Yankee. I would think that yankee would be complimentary--from a black person--but apparently not.
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby spank » Tue 01.03.2006 4:38 am

yankee go home!! B)
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby AJBryant » Tue 01.03.2006 9:14 am

So what is a yankee? Does it come from yankee doodle? It must have something to do with the american civil war and the confederate forces right? The flag? Please let me know.


It's a corruption of the old Dutch Janke ("Johnny") referring to the Dutch settlements in the New York state area from the mid 1600s. The use of the nickname was derisive, and was used by other colonists to refer to people from specifically New England in the mid 1700s. (C.f. use of "Fritz" as a referral to Germans.)

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Last edited by AJBryant on Tue 01.03.2006 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby mandolin » Tue 01.03.2006 9:47 am

So is the american "yankee" have an entirely different etiology from the "yank/yankee" used by the british to refer to americans during (or even before?) the revolutionary war?

I had always -thought- that yankee was probably related to being viewed as a backwards and/or outcast society "british vs. american colonies" then later "south vs. north" etc?
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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby AJBryant » Tue 01.03.2006 1:38 pm

So is the american "yankee" have an entirely different etiology from the "yank/yankee" used by the british to refer to americans during (or even before?) the revolutionary war?


Of course not. It's exactly the same word. :) The colonists used it for the New Englanders -- the British used it for everyone.


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RE: Offensive Term?

Postby jinksys » Tue 05.02.2006 1:13 am

I found this interesting,

wikipedia says...

Many Americans find the term extremely offensive and racist due to World War II guilt, but a Japanese living in Japan would have trouble understanding their violent reactions, as the term would not be racist to him. Many non-Americans use the term as a natural abbreviation of the word "Japanese".
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