Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Posted some Manga

Posted some Manga

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?

RE: Posted some Manga

Postby AJBryant » Sat 01.07.2006 10:16 am

I don't know when our society got so screwed up that any criticism is taken as a personal insult. I rather blame that whole "self-esteem-first" generation. (student: "2+2=5" Teacher: "You really did work hard on that one! Well done" Me: "WTF? The answer is WRONG!")

As for the "try harder" bit: You don't think that during halftime the coaches tell the team to "try harder" to score more goals? You don't think the lieutenant tells the platoon under fire to "try harder" to break out? You don't think a mom teaching her daughter to cook says "try harder" when the cake burns? You don't think a dad says "try harder" when his son says he's tired of practise pitches? It's encouragement, not "give up and lose/die/starve/quit you sad little excuse of a team/soldier/daughter/son".

When *I* was told to "try harder" I started spending more time in the dictionaries and grammars until I got it down. I didn't tell my teacher he was being a tool.

Tony
(edited cause those &#$@! smilies show up where they're not supposed to)
Last edited by AJBryant on Sat 01.07.2006 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: Posted some Manga

Postby Daisuke » Sat 01.07.2006 12:31 pm

AJBryant wrote:
I don't know when our society got so screwed up that any criticism is taken as a personal insult. I rather blame that whole "self-esteem-first" generation. (student: "2+2=5" Teacher: "You really did work hard on that one! Well done" Me: "WTF? The answer is WRONG!")

As for the "try harder" bit: You don't think that during halftime the coaches tell the team to "try harder" to score more goals? You don't think the lieutenant tells the platoon under fire to "try harder" to break out? You don't think a mom teaching her daughter to cook says "try harder" when the cake burns? You don't think a dad says "try harder" when his son says he's tired of practise pitches? It's encouragement, not "give up and lose/die/starve/quit you sad little excuse of a team/soldier/daughter/son".

When *I* was told to "try harder" I started spending more time in the dictionaries and grammars until I got it down. I didn't tell my teacher he was being a tool.

Tony
(edited cause those &#$@! smilies show up where they're not supposed to)


I see your point Tony, but some people take corrections and critics very near.

Leave this discussion now, it was not what the thread was made for.
Daisuke
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed 02.02.2005 5:20 am

RE: Posted some Manga

Postby Justin » Sun 01.08.2006 4:58 am

You know there IkimashoZ, you do realize that you’ve really made a piss poor environment on this forum (and your own) to discuses your work all because of a few little comments that you didn’t want to hear. I’ve been sitting back watching this whole stupid thing go by, and after having a look at your site today, it was disappointing to see you moaning about how Harisenbon and Tony are out there just to trash your work on your forum over there as well.

If you really want to talk about your work here, I’m sorry, but learn to take a little bit of criticism, even if it may not be what you want to hear. Making a big scene here has just made it more difficult for others like myself to come and join in on the conversation as any little comment they make could just start the whole thing over again.

Anyway, onto the part here where I’ll probably get labeled as some elitist out there trying to trash your work, but here it goes anyway…

創る is used for divine creation, 作る is used in the general sense, and 造る implies the creater was involved mentally in the creation process.


You might want to research things there a bit more and provide a better explanation. As Harisenbon said, you’ve got people coming to your site to learn, make sure what you’ve got there is correct and concise. Since I’m so nice, and don’t mind working a bit harder, I’ll even do the research for ya…

「作る」 形あるもの・形ないもの

主として小さなものを手作りする、また無形のものを作る、また作物の場合に使う。詩(俳句など)を作る、食事(料理)を作る、米作り、作り話、記録を作る、若作り、文章を作る、音楽を作る、時間を作る。

「造る」 形あるもの

主として大きいもの、工業的なものを造る場合、規模の大きい場合に使う。大がかりで時間がかかるものに使う場合が多い。船を造る(造船)、宅地を造る(造成する)、施設造り、荷造り、財産造り、酒を造る家業、みそ造り。

「創る」 新しいもの・形ないもの

新しいものをこしらえる場合に使う。新しい文化を創る、画期的な音楽作品を創る、小説を創り出す、神が宇宙を創る。

それはおまえに神(かみ)となってもらうために!!!
That [top.] you [dir.] god [clause] becoming recieve[inf. pres. pos.] for [dir.]
As for that, it is for the purpose of recieving the becoming of god from you.
There was some confusion as to why なってもらう uses と on the rest of the clause, but in my opinion this is only to avoid confusion with the に that indicates who the "giver" of the recieved matter is. If the sentence read おまえに神になってもらう, it might be unclear what's becoming and who's giving. Other opinions and translations are, of course, welcome. "So that you can grant me the power of god!"


I think you’ve got things mixed up there a bit. She’s not granting powers to anyone, she’s the one who’s going to be turned into a god, that's why he brought her there.

(人)に〜してもらう = have someone do

Also, 〜となる and 〜になる generally hold the same meaning, only real difference is that 〜となる sounds a bit stiffer, you generally see it a lot in books.

Well, there ya go for now. I might try to go back through and take a more in depth look at things some other time, but seeing as how I’m heading back to Japan here for a few weeks come this Thursday, it’ll probably be after that, well, that is if you even want me to.
User avatar
Justin
 
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon 06.06.2005 1:39 am

RE: Posted some Manga

Postby IkimashoZ » Sun 01.08.2006 11:38 am

Anyway, onto the part here where I’ll probably get labeled as some elitist out there trying to trash your work, but here it goes anyway…


If you would like to start a discussion about actual grammar points that I have misunderstood or incorrectly translated, I am very open to discussion and would very much like to hear your input on these things. However, I will not tolerate accusations that my way of thinking and methodology of my site are wrong on the basis that the accuser's way of thinking is the only right one.

I'm very appreciative that you took the time to post those definitions. When I originally wrote the line you quoted, I was citing from memory a conversation I had on a different forum about two months ago. That information should have been marked as possibly incorrect when I wrote it (since it obviously is).

You know there IkimashoZ, you do realize that you’ve really made a piss poor environment on this forum (and your own) to discuses your work all because of a few little comments that you didn’t want to hear.


I really do understand where you're coming from with this one. I think it's unfortunate that the first posts popped up here had to be inflammatory. However, I will not, in this public space or any other, be told that I am wrong "just because." I made it very clear in my very first post that my intent was to:

generate some discussion concerning the grammar [of the manga I posted]. I would also like to know what manga you're interested so I can go buy and read more interesting manga.


My intent was not to get told that I'm a "bad translator", which, while it may be true in terms of professional translation, is not relevant to my project or even this discussion thread.

I am really busy for the next week, but when I get the time to work on this project again, I will certainly be rewriting the portions of the text you have pointed out.

(人)に〜してもらう = have someone do


This isn't in either A Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar or its intermediate counterpart. This surprised me a lot. I found it on alc.co.jp. That's very interesting, and explains my original mistake. Thanks. I'd like to quote this on the site.

Also, 〜となる and 〜になる generally hold the same meaning, only real difference is that 〜となる sounds a bit stiffer, you generally see it a lot in books.


Great good to know. I'd like to quote this too. When I get the time. Which will be awhile for now. I'm very hopeful that this post will generate productive conversation. Thanks again!
Last edited by IkimashoZ on Sun 01.08.2006 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ist das einen Kanji, dass ich gefunden habe??
User avatar
IkimashoZ
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri 10.28.2005 2:00 am

RE: Posted some Manga

Postby Daisuke » Sun 01.08.2006 2:12 pm

People are you deaf?! Fine, I closed the thread instead, maybe that will make you understand.
Daisuke
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed 02.02.2005 5:20 am

Previous

Return to Learning Materials Reviews & Language Learning tips

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests