self teaching questions

[An_daisuke]

skrhgh3b wrote:
If you're at all serious, I would absolutely not recommend self-study as a beginner. You need to get into a classroom where you're being taught by native speakers. As far as a textbook, find out which textbook your college or university uses. When you move into the 'intermediate' level, self-study becomes more practical because you'll have the resources and knowledge to begin answering your own questions.

I agree with skrhgh3b's suggestion, since i followed that path. It's damn hard to start from scratch, let alone deciding which is the 'correct' path. With a teacher, they can guide you for the beginning of the journey. Once you get a kick start, you can then do self study.

In my case, I had a teacher for 6 months and the rest was self study. I must admitt, i did learn more without a teacher but she did guide me and gave me the perfect kick off to japanese learning.

In your case, fliprenegade, you have no time for actual classes. So, good luck with your self studies.

[StrandedInATreetop]

You are probably right about it being better to start off with a class but I can't fit it into my schedule because I was in the general studies program and did not get to take any classes for my major until now (end of my sophmore year). I do find that I am ahead of many people who have taken a class, but I don't deny that I might be ahead of where I am if I had taken a class; it's possible I'm only ahead of them because I spend more time on it or maybe it's because I'm not working for a grade so there is less pressure and it's more enjoyable. Maybe classes are the best way to start out, but I think I'm doing alright on my own so far.

Thanks a lot Mandolin for the link.

[Makenna Ori]

i too am trying to teach myself... is hard, but i really want to learn. i am just beginning to study japanese...

[hamsterfreak4evr]

If anyone wants to talk or get help studying, we can help eachother through MSN Messenger; mine is queensusiesunshine@hotmail.com!

[mio1993]

私は日本語に!! 書くことができる!

[mio1993]

hamsterfreak4evr wrote:
If anyone wants to talk or get help studying, we can help eachother through MSN Messenger; mine is queensusiesunshine@hotmail.com!

how old are you?

[CAPiTUL]

I have to be honest with you, the whole idea of learning a language through independent study is a farse. It is impossible. The reason for language is communication - interaction. If you aren't communicating with somebody, you aren't utilizing the language to its full capacity. All that self study only goes so far; you NEED interaction with other people. I am not trying to say that independent study is worthless, but it does have it limits. I once had a professor tell me that the only way to truly learn a language is to live in a place where that language is spoken by the natives. I have to agree.

[magma]

If someone just wanted to learn how to read Japanese, do you think they could do it from books and tapes alone?

[kaywala]

CAPiTUL wrote:
I have to be honest with you, the whole idea of learning a language through independent study is a farse. It is impossible. The reason for language is communication - interaction. If you aren't communicating with somebody, you aren't utilizing the language to its full capacity. All that self study only goes so far; you NEED interaction with other people. I am not trying to say that independent study is worthless, but it does have it limits. I once had a professor tell me that the only way to truly learn a language is to live in a place where that language is spoken by the natives. I have to agree.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. There's a guy at my school and he's taught himself 3 different languages fluently, as a hobby. xD And he didn't take classes or have been to the countries that speak it. And one of my other friend's cousing learned Japanese fluently through self study in 2 years. ^^ So it's definatly not impossible ^^

[mandolin]

CAPiTUL wrote:
I have to be honest with you, the whole idea of learning a language through independent study is a farse. It is impossible. The reason for language is communication - interaction. If you aren't communicating with somebody, you aren't utilizing the language to its full capacity. All that self study only goes so far; you NEED interaction with other people. I am not trying to say that independent study is worthless, but it does have it limits. I once had a professor tell me that the only way to truly learn a language is to live in a place where that language is spoken by the natives. I have to agree.

I'll disagree with this on the grounds that everyone has different capabilities. Some may need a classroom setting, and/or live among native speakers to learn the language, but not everyone will.

Idiomatic issues are going to be a problem without the immersion in society. I'll give you that. Though, they too can be learned, if considerably more slowly.

Complete isolation in studying a language by one's self is impossible. However, there's plenty of resources today that make "self study" possible along side of others striving for the same goal. This very site, for instance, has brought many of us together.

It's why this site exists, and why so many make use of it to study the language. Are we all deluding ourselves? I don't think so. If you think we are, then why are you here? To tell us every so often that it's futile to try? Because we lack the monetary resources for a univeristy programme, we are doomed to failure?

The human spirit is an amazing thing, and with the right catalysts, can accomplish anything.

[AJBryant]

The trouble with self-study is that it allows (indeed, it facilitates) the development of ingrained mistakes. Without someone to correct one, the mistakes are not only compounded but reinforced.

Tony

[sgtkwol]

I think self study has its limits. But those barriers can be quickly broken when it really comes down to it. If you learn enough and read a lot, the day you put it into practice, you may be shaky, but only days of immersion, or a couple of weeks of casual practice will make it all come together. Some things said in this forum have made self study alone seem useless. I think I learn more at work, b/c I study the whole day, anywhere from 2-4 hours total, depending on my mood. When it comes to face to face communication, I would rather have a paper wall to break down as opposed to spending years in classes learning at the "normal" level, when I can learn at my own pace (and for free btw).

[mandolin]

AJBryant wrote:
The trouble with self-study is that it allows (indeed, it facilitates) the development of ingrained mistakes. Without someone to correct one, the mistakes are not only compounded but reinforced.

Tony

True, but I give the benefit of the doubt that most people will seek out criticism, or at the VERY least, end up in a situation that makes critcism unavoidable (attempting to use it in conversation with a native speaker, writing it in a public forum, etc).

If neither of the above two ever occurr for any particular student of the language, the need for accuracy is in question. IE, they never speak it or write it. Ever. Except for themselves.

And if that makes them happy..... who cares?

[richard99uk]

Well... as for ingrained mistakes.... if you put your skills to use, and speak the language to natives, then you'll quickly realize they're mistakes, and you can do something about them. I'd love to be able to go to class and speak to a native speaker aloud more often, but one of my friends who's into self-study a lot more than me, rightly says, the group can only move as fast as the slowest person.