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Advice on learning Kanji.

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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Ensomniak86 » Fri 03.11.2005 1:23 am

Yeah, the readings are another story. Although you can learn the readings by memorizing the kanji themselves, I don't really think that you start learning those effectively until you are actively reading Japanese. You'll run into all kinds of combinations that will keep you coming back to learn more.
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Mukade » Fri 03.11.2005 3:11 am

Ensomniak86 wrote:
Yeah, the readings are another story. Although you can learn the readings by memorizing the kanji themselves, I don't really think that you start learning those effectively until you are actively reading Japanese. You'll run into all kinds of combinations that will keep you coming back to learn more.


Yes. Consider the idiom:

+人+色

Literally, it's "ten people, ten colors." It means something like "It takes all kinds," or "different strokes for different folks."

Now, the first half isn't too hard: じゅうにん This is how you would read this anyway. You use the On reading when reading most compound words, and sure enough, you do so here.

By following the same logic, the second half would be: じゅうしき. I mean, when you count colors, you use that pronunciation. いっしき、にしき、さんしき, etc.

Of course, it's not that easy. In this one instance only, it is pronounced といろ.

It's enough to make you want to tear your hair out. :@
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Matsumoto_hideto » Thu 03.17.2005 12:31 am

Everyone has made very good points

but I just wanted to elaborate on some points



1) You need to know at least 2,000 Kanji to be considered literate


2,000 individuals


now most of us know that a single character is not used by it self Half of the time it is used in a combination...so take that 2,000 and lets say multiply it by 4 or 5 which gives you 8,000 - 10,000? ....dont worry though its nothing like the chinese were the average college grad knows more than 10,000 individual characters.....


2) Trying to Cram kanji doesnt work at all for most people. Unless your one of the gifted few there is no point in learning 5 characters a day. Most people just put pressure on themselves by cramming indivdual characters when the most important part is not the individual but the character used in a combination (thats were most people fall short at)

3) 4 - 6 hours a day is ridiculous for the average person (Unless they are majoring in the language... then i can understand) but 4 - 6 hours is a bit beyond dedication..........and into...............dare i say obsession?








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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby momotaro » Wed 03.23.2005 10:47 am

I use the Kodansha Kanji Learner’s Dictionary.
It’s cool.
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Spaztick » Wed 03.23.2005 1:16 pm

I ran across a Kanji that I can't quite place the meaning of. It was Chinese, and I didn't find it in the JLPT book I have, so I was wondering if anyone else knew what it meant:

It was a kanji with a left sided radical of water, combined with the kanji for "early." Any clue?
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby hihlordjp » Thu 03.24.2005 2:38 am

Spaztick wrote:
I ran across a Kanji that I can't quite place the meaning of. It was Chinese, and I didn't find it in the JLPT book I have, so I was wondering if anyone else knew what it meant:

It was a kanji with a left sided radical of water, combined with the kanji for "early." Any clue?


<sanzuihen> + 早?
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RE: Kanji

Postby Husky » Sat 03.26.2005 1:43 am

I've learned my first 55 kanji in the last month, and most are combinations, like 'mirror' or 'dream'. the first complicated kanji I learned was 愛. About half are simple, basic kanji, though. I learn them from my friend or my kanji dictionary. It has 2000 or so kanji and lists the stroke order and such. I think it's working pretty well, although I am far from being able to read japanese!
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RE: help in kanji

Postby Chan » Sat 03.26.2005 11:51 am

well, kanji is actually chinese characters...now i can read and write around 2000 characters althought some pronounciations are wrong....i remember that i learnt chinese since i was sumthing like 7 years old so it shouldn't be a problem for me when i moved on to japanese (although the pronounciations are different, the writing style is completely the same; and with similiar meanings as well..)....this is actually how i learnt it:

1. start with easy characters, eg. 一 (いち, one)  二(に two) etc...
2. get a chinese or kanji dictionary
3. recognise the form of the kanji (eg. radicals...as in break up one single kanji character into several parts...)
4. practise writing the character in its particular order or stroke
5. try to learn at least 1 new character a day (memorize the radicals and parts building up the kanji character...trust me, this helps a lot in recognising kanji chars.... at the same time, learn how to pronounce it)
6. Practise...Practise...and mor Practise....and i mean repetitive practise...cuz after learning chinese for almost 12 years, even i tend to forget some characters cuz i don't use them often enough...

Hope this helps
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby KRed » Sat 03.26.2005 1:11 pm

I have found several methods that have greatly helped me remember the 1st 400 kanji.

1. Read the book Spaztick was talking about, it breaks itself down well for starters to kanji.

2. Buy some Kanji cards, I use the "Tuttle" kanji cards but there are many others around which you can use. Use a kanji list, like the one on this site, to determine which kanji you need to learn 1st. Carry the cards around with you and test yourself every time you have a spare 5 minutes, 6 five minute study periods a day are more useful than 1 half hour one.

3. Don`t try and study too many readings of a kanji at the same time. Tackle the readings on a word to word basis, when you need to learn a certain word learn the sound at that time.

4. Play with combinations of kanji in order to get a good understanding of the sounds, kanji cards offer good practice for combining sounds.

5. It is good to write out kanji many times as practice but it is even better if you add a little structure to your writing. If you practice writing out 5 kanji a day, try and group the kanji together ie Notice that the kanji for Tomodachi, Migi and Hidari share a similar feature practicing like this will help you differentiate the kanji more easily later on.

6. Don`t just practice kanji on it`s own, practice it with grammar. When you write a sentence and you can put some kanji in it do so, when you come back to that sentence to read it again you will heve to try and read it and you can use context to determine what that kanji is.

7. Take the proficiency tests, this will push you harder to learn. Practicing the past papers is a good way to review your kanji.

8. If you can get a kanji poster on your wall do so, it`s an immediate reference point.

9. When you hear a new word in Japanese, ask your teacher if the word is made with a certain kanji you have learned, this will help you remember the readings of the kanji more clearly.

10. Find as many internet kanji games as you can.

If anyone has any other methods they can think of please share them I`m always looking for new ways to study kanji.
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Ady001 » Sat 03.26.2005 11:44 pm

Another good way to memorize maybe is to follow the patterns in Kanji. There are some patterns in some words. I've learned that again in L&H's Kanji search function
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Spaztick » Sun 03.27.2005 1:53 pm

Yea, true. Some words also you can learn when you know the kanji, because you associate the direct meaning with the word, and you never forget it. Example: (and this is one I'll never forget)

-
-
Warning: kanji slightly offensive.
-
-

mizuko - aborted fetus

It comes from the kanji "water baby." Nearly made me vomit when I first heard it. :/
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby chupito45 » Sun 03.27.2005 7:38 pm

what does onna mean??
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Matsumoto_hideto » Mon 03.28.2005 12:28 am

Onna means woman!!!!







if not this is a seriously embarassing mistake!



2 years of studying down the drain!
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Spaztick » Wed 03.30.2005 1:16 pm

I found some Kanji interesing, as some people teach the origins and how to learn them differently. I've come up with the following ways I've heard of (if you have more please list them): I've decided not to put the old "look and memorize them" method because let's face it, there are better ways of learning out there than rote memorization.

The Heilsig (sp?) method: a method that isn't meant to be used alone, it teaches the kanji first, without the meaning, and then goes back and teaches you the ways to pronounce it. It teaches you the kanji by using objects like scissors, pencils, etc. to teach you.

The Welsh method: a method that teaches you the kanji by where they came from according to the early picture the Chinese drew (IE the kanji for water came from a "squeezed" picture of a river.) It is a good way to learn because the kanji are built on one another. A good way for a beginner to learn. The only hard part is when kanji become more and more abstract, then I think is when you have to "ween" yourself onto another method.
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RE: Advice on learning Kanji.

Postby Schattenjedi » Thu 03.31.2005 7:27 am

Repetition is what works best for me. At first I write a kanji a few times to initially memorize it and then write it a few times the next day and the day after that until its made its way into my long term memory. While writing the Kanji I think of its meaning. I also try to use it in compounds. I believe Japanese school children learn them similarly.
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