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Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3rd p

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Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3rd p

Postby Kurisu33 » Mon 05.15.2006 3:18 am

So I've learned:

Hiragana & Katakana = Pretty fun.
Some grammar = Nice; helpful, but doesn't seem all to practical yet without some Kanji.

But now I want to learn Kanji. So I've digged up Grade School Kanji charts and figured I'd learn those first, but already find myself a bit confused with all the possible pronunciations.

Ex: For the #9 the following are presented:

KYUU
KU
kokono
kokono(tsu)
-----------------------------------------------------
So I take it to mean these mean different things when used depending on a variety of factors (context, intended meaning, use in compounds, and even location in the sentence) Uh my dictionary shows KYU-; KU; and kokono(tsu) meaning simply: (num) nine. And zippo when kokono is inserted.

Dictionary used:
EDICT © 2001-2003 The Electronic Dictionary Research and Development Group, Monash University
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/edict.html
==========================================
I'm confused when I see the kanji for 9.. what the hell do I say?? Must I learn all four pronunciations? Seems like I would confuse myself. What would a little kid in Japan learn when given this symbol?

I got my kanji chart from http://www.learn-japanese.info/firstgradekanji.html

I would appreciate if someone could clear this up, rather than sit here learning the wrong thing.

Thanx in advance..
Last edited by Kurisu33 on Mon 05.15.2006 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Learning Kanji.. but uh whats with all the pronunciation

Postby kotori » Mon 05.15.2006 3:36 am

Learn words. Drilling individual kanji with just their readings is going to leave you hopelessly lost without regular usage, and you can't HAVE regular usage without vocabulary.

九月 − くがつ ー kugatsu - September (ninth month)
九日 − ここのか − kokonoka - nine days, ninth day of the month
九回 − きゅうかい − kyuukai - nine times
九年 − きゅうねん − kyuunen - nine years

Now, it's not so much a mystery for these four words, AND you have a way to try and practice the kanji meaningfully (and not just 九 but four other kanji as well)

EDIT: I use this good application to get example usage. Kanji Alive
Last edited by kotori on Mon 05.15.2006 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Learning Kanji.. but uh whats with all the pronunciation

Postby Kurisu33 » Mon 05.15.2006 3:49 am

Yep, that seems to make sense.. guess I was just looking at the pronunciations funny. Perhaps from an English language view point. The way of learning vocabulary like you presented seems to be the way to go..

but I'm still fickled with simply counting to ten and its really getting to me..

Example Website: http://www.westernmarylandaikikai.org/to10.htm
Counting to ten in Japanese.

1 = ICHI
2 = NI
3 = SAN
4 = SHI (YON)
5 = GO
6 = ROKU
7 = SHICHI (NANA)
8 = HACHI
9 = KYU (KU)
10 = JU

Why do 4, 7, & 9 have two each? eh?
Last edited by Kurisu33 on Mon 05.15.2006 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby Sorako » Mon 05.15.2006 7:23 am

Well, technically all the numbers have more than one pronunciation. The one in parenthesis that you see is the traditional Japanese pronunciation because Japanese use the Chinese readings of the numbers for everyday things. The main event that comes to mind where you would use the Japanese readings is when you're talking about days in the month, so if you were talking about March 7th, it'd be 三月七日 and pronounced as さんがつ なのか, and it'd use that stem.

However, seven and four are a little different, because their alternate readings are used the most due to superstition reasons, so you'll probably see four pronounced as "yon" more than you would "shi" and seven pronounced as "nana" instead of "shichi". The rest of them, unless it's days in a month, it's almost safe to assume they go with the Chinese pronunciation. At least at this level of learning. :)
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby Kurisu33 » Mon 05.15.2006 2:16 pm

Weird! :| Guess I'll just have to commit that to memory..
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby two_heads_talking » Tue 05.16.2006 2:04 pm

Kurisu33 wrote:
Weird! :| Guess I'll just have to commit that to memory..


yep, you will definately have to memorize that.. counting can be very interesting as there are markers for flat objects, round objects, cylindrical objects, paper objects etc..

for example 3 papers (sanmae) 3 glasses (sanpon) 3 dots (sanbikki) (i thinnk that last one is right..
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby Mukade » Tue 05.16.2006 7:39 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:
3 dots (sanbikki) (i thinnk that last one is right..


That should just be santen (三点).
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby sgtkwol » Tue 05.16.2006 10:15 pm

I have spoken to a guy that does some karate instruction and he told me the he was told by his teacher, not to use "shi" for 4 but "yon", because shi can means crap. I could picture in the same atmosphere where "nana" for 7 may not be used because it may seem a little feminine or less tough than "shichi".
If you are in a foreign land where they don't understand your native tongue, just speak louder and slower...in the language that they don't know.
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby kotori » Tue 05.16.2006 11:18 pm

It's not that 'shi' can mean crap, but that it's also the word for death.
死 − し − death
Consider it similar to the taboo of the numbers 13 and/or 666.

'nana' I think only sounds girly to english speakers. I've never had a japanese person avoid saying nana -- in fact, I hear it more than I hear shichi.
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 05.17.2006 9:12 am

Mukade wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:
3 dots (sanbikki) (i thinnk that last one is right..


That should just be santen (三点).


you are correct.. i was thinking of something else.. which counter was hikki, bikki, and pikki for?
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 05.17.2006 9:13 am

kotori wrote:
It's not that 'shi' can mean crap, but that it's also the word for death.
死 − し − death
Consider it similar to the taboo of the numbers 13 and/or 666.

'nana' I think only sounds girly to english speakers. I've never had a japanese person avoid saying nana -- in fact, I hear it more than I hear shichi.


yes, also one of the reasons you won't find a 4th floor in hotels and high rise apartments.. no one wants to live on the death floor..
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby AJBryant » Wed 05.17.2006 12:39 pm

you are correct.. i was thinking of something else.. which counter was hikki, bikki, and pikki for?


Well, if you mean "hiki" -- it's small animals.


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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 05.17.2006 2:19 pm

that might be it.. it has been some time since i counted small animals.. lol
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby nikonikoniko » Wed 05.17.2006 10:52 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:no one wants to live on the death floor..


Well, maybe the same daredevils who rent apartments numbered "964" because they're so cheap would also be the kind to tempt fate and take a 4th floor apartment if one existed.
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RE: Kanji Pronunciation -> Proper way to count to 10? See 3

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 05.18.2006 9:00 am

nikoniko1975 wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:no one wants to live on the death floor..


Well, maybe the same daredevils who rent apartments numbered "964" because they're so cheap would also be the kind to tempt fate and take a 4th floor apartment if one existed.


OH? what does the 964 mean? i am sure it is a kanji combo that means something dealing with death, but i am not familiar with it..
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