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I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

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I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby TrilinguisT » Wed 05.17.2006 4:44 pm

i noticed something strange about the folks who posts here in the Boards. I've never been to japan, but i have heard many stories, and i have noticed many things that are true just by communicating with my penpals via email, and in the chatroom with native japanese folks.

1. THe lack of japan's negitivity seems very very strange. about 95% of the posts here i see is all positive .. japan must be a paradise or something no? not only is that strange, but most of you praise anything/everything japanese. it isnt suprising though, the media has much power to make you think the way they want you to think.

2. Japanese ppl here are like GODs. this isnt suprising either, i noticed that in the introductions board, those who are from japan gets alot of response. They are not learning tools, i appreciate each and every one of them for coming here. Thank you all... by the way, i have a friend (samspacifico) who came here and posted in the same forum, the lack of response didnt suprise me much, but when i looked at everyone else's introduction post (those who arent from japan) i saw most of the same thing. its like you have to make a name for yourself or noone will notice you or something.

3. no one can post anything negative about japan or you will be flamed. EVERY freakin country has it's bads and goods to it. if you dont know your own country's bads, what purpose do you have to defend another country's bad and try to justify it to good? i dont need any examples to give, cause those of you who do that know dam straight who you are.

4. I've always wondered why some of the members here do not come anymore . hmmm... maybe its becuase some of you guys stoned (flamed) them to death becuase they asked a innocent question. your stupid remarks and pothetic reactions ruin their reputation. agian, you know you dam straight you are.
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby Sachi » Wed 05.17.2006 5:22 pm

I don't have much to add, but I just have a quick remark....

4. I've always wondered why some of the members here do not come anymore . hmmm... maybe its becuase some of you guys stoned (flamed) them to death becuase they asked a innocent question. your stupid remarks and pothetic reactions ruin their reputation. agian, you know you dam straight you are.


Well, maybe this has happend a time or two (none that I can recall), but certainly not much. If a member got flamed, it's usually justified. Some people will sign on, post rather rudely and treat the more knowledgeable members like beat-up textbooks. Most of the time, one-time posters probably just gave up on Japanese, forgot about TJP, something happend to them, or they simply didn't need to come back any more. Also remember that many, many members will join, but never post nor come back. Certainly no one was mean to them; they just left.

*shrug* 'S all I got :p
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby hyperconjugated » Wed 05.17.2006 7:20 pm

TrilinguisT wrote:
Thank you all... by the way, i have a friend (samspacifico) who came here and posted in the same forum, the lack of response didnt suprise me much, but when i looked at everyone else's introduction post (those who arent from japan) i saw most of the same thing. its like you have to make a name for yourself or noone will notice you or something.


Numbers:
492 threads in the introduction-forum.
About 33 intros with 10+ posts and
about 40 intros with 0 responses.
Thats makes 419 introductions with
post-count between 1 and 9 (i think
the average lies somewhere between
2-5 posts). So, actually only few people
got zero response and even fewer
got plenty of responses (the choise for
10+ was quite arbitrary, well anyways...).
To sum it up, bulk of the people
who introduced themselves got
feedback, not the otherway. Those
who got more of it or nothing belong
to marginal groups (~15% of total).
Feel free to contest my half-assed
study, i was just playing with some
numbers. :p
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby Matsutake » Wed 05.17.2006 7:29 pm

This forum is much milder and much more open and friendly than many (most) out there. Newbies recieve better treatment here than most sites as well.
You are correct that most of the posts are positive about Japan. This is kind of self-perpetuating because of the type of people that frequent this site. Gaijinpot and other forums will have a much wider range of topics and more negativity and cynicism, but this site is hands down above any other for getting help with Japanese at any level. If that means some people are flamed for knocking Japan, so be it. The alternative, a forum about Japan used to flame everything Japanese, is much worse in my opinion.
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby jinksys » Wed 05.17.2006 8:56 pm

ohayou trilinguist!

You want some bad things about japan? I deliver!

1) Until 1997, Tokyo and Nagano are the only areas of Japan where sex with children was not illegal.

2) In Japan, making, distributing, selling and displaying child pornography are banned by the 1999 Law for Punishing Acts related to Child Prostitution and Child Pornography and for Protecting Children. However, animated material is not covered by the law.

3) There are more than 150,000 foreign women in prostitution in Japan. Trafficking laws exist, but are rarely enforced.

4) An independent investigator for the UN says racism in Japan is deep and profound, and the government does not recognise the depth of the problem.

5) Equality of the sexes in japan is laughable.


I have more, anyone? anyone?
Hello? Internets?
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby kanadajin » Wed 05.17.2006 9:30 pm

TrilinguisT, I think your taking things way to seriously.

When people get mad at other people for posting questions is either because it's been answered hundreds of times, Or it's a really stupid question. I've seen people ask "Any one know where I can find a grammar site?" Not knowing TJP Is one of them.

No one thinks Japanese people on this site are "GODS" or LearningTools. I respect them as much as anyone else, I rather ask some one fluent a question then someone who just started learnign a question. If you ask a Japanese, they would most likely answer your question... And answer it right.

Bad things about japan ARE posted here. You just havent seen them, Also I don't see much talk about japan itself, Most thigns we talk about on this site is the Japanese language not Japan.

members don't come here anymore because they take things way to seriously, In one thread someone asked how to edit a post.. his reply was "On the top right of your post theres a button that says EDIT." He said "Boy, some people on this site are mean.." How is that mean? He got the answer he was looking for.. I never knew answering questions was a bad thing. If you ask most people you dont see here anymore their just lurkers.. and they'll admit it (They don't post much)
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby TrilinguisT » Wed 05.17.2006 10:08 pm

Kanadajin :

I rather ask some one fluent a question then someone who just started learnign a question. If you ask a Japanese, they would most likely answer your question... And answer it right.


you told me enough.
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby Infidel » Thu 05.18.2006 1:18 am

It isn't that there is nothing negative about Japan. It is just that when someone does come up with something negative about Japan, it is usually part of a rant that is shortly squashed, and it should be. While an acknowledgment of the Negative aspects of Japan are just as important as the good. It is important to keep it in perspective and not focus overmuch on it.

edit - misspelled Japan /doh!
Last edited by Infidel on Thu 05.18.2006 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby coco » Thu 05.18.2006 1:36 am

jinksys
中途半端な情報ださないでくださいよ。
正確さにかけるデータだな。最新の情報も追ってないし。
困ったもんです。こういう人は。
子供の定義は、なんですか。
はい。一からやり直し。
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby Takeo Saeki » Thu 05.18.2006 2:25 am

This is the most negative thread i've seen in a while.

I just want to say a couple of things.

1. I treat the Japanese people here exactly the same as I treat everyone else here. I don't treat them like a God or a textbook. A person's race is not a factor in how I treat them, whether I am learning their language or not and whether I am particularly interested in their country or not. I treat a person based on how they treat others, not based on where they are at/from.

2. I do not usually post on a thread in the Introductions section, but it is not because the OPs are not usually Japanese. For one thing, I usually just go to a thread listed in the "Most Recent Threads" thing on the left, and there's not always an introduction thread there. Also because I never know quite what to say on the thread, because everyone else has already said the exact same things I intended to say. Again, the poster's race is not a factor.

3: Also, I never flame anyone for anything they say and I rarely see anyone else doing so. Extremely rarely. Sometimes there are sarcastic comments taken too seriously, but rarely is it more than that.
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby jinksys » Thu 05.18.2006 2:27 am

coco wrote:
jinksys
中途半端な情報ださないでくださいよ。
正確さにかけるデータだな。最新の情報も追ってないし。
困ったもんです。こういう人は。
子供の定義は、なんですか。
はい。一からやり直し。


I'll back up what I said..

Regarding Child Porn Law

Racism deep/profound

Human Trafficking
Last edited by jinksys on Thu 05.18.2006 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby aKuMu » Thu 05.18.2006 5:19 am

Ofcourse there are bad things about japan. and its mostlikely the younger ones (anime geeks?) who think the way you said (japanese are gods, everything japanese IS good and so on) But why to talk about bad thinks here? I wouldn't want to talk about such bad things as its not really fun. People here want to learn and have fun.
And its not like that there was no thread that was negative.

Maybe thats why some threads dont get that much response? Just because one doesnt has to say something to it.
Just like in the "introduction" i dont think that thread is there so that you get 100 replys and everyone wants to have a child from you and what not, but more like that the people in the forum gets to know you or know bit about you. (you want 100 replys with "welcome"?)

I have to say that the mods and admins in this forum are way TO nice. people tend to aks the same old (and easy to answer for them selves) questions over and over again, but the mods always stay cool.
If it would be another forum with where it's more strict most would have been allready banned and what not. What i wanted to say is, that the people in this forum are really tollerant. But if someone asks for the 10000th time, " how can i type kana" or " how to learn kanji" or when double, tripple posting and not knowing about the edit button. I mean every one sould have working eyes so it should not be that problem to look up some things for yourselves or pay a bit attention to what youre doing.
Last edited by aKuMu on Thu 05.18.2006 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby Jim » Thu 05.18.2006 8:16 am

1. I've never been to Japan but I wouldn't rule it out so I can't say anything on it. In saying that, I wouldn't rule out travelling to any country.

2. You will get that on ANY forum concerning another culture mate ;) If I go to an Irish language forum full of Americans I would probably get a lot of responses, if someone from hong kong posted on a cantonese language forum, they would probably get a lot of responses. A lot of the reason isn't because they are seen as GODs, but because they are fluent in the language and can point out a lot of things much easier than someone else. It's one thing to be a fluent foreign speaker, its another to speak it every day since day 1.

3. There are a fair few negatives about any culture. As far as equality between genders go, most countries bring in legislation because they are forced too, example:
In the Republic of Ireland, up untill the 70'sish there where huge equality gaps in terms of a womans role and the pay they recieve. They wouldn't work if they had children and etc. They where forced to change that or they would not be accepted into the European Union, and next year there is a referendum on changing the constitution on the womans role from a christian-catholic conservative standpoint to a modern view. Japan may not have that modern view just like many countries dont (for example the middle east) because its how they've been brought up, it's ben part of their culture for a long time in a lot of countries and it's slowly changing.

3. Can't comment again because I haven't posted anything negative about Japan ;) I'm here to learn the language, not talk about its obvious racism in some parts of the country or by certain people. As a whole I'm sure Japan is a good country like any other, remember they aren't a western country where people complain about every small thing. Try pulling off half the things done in Japan in the UK and you'll land yourself in prison or have people calling for resignation from your job ;) The opposite extreme.

4. I've done no such thing personally as I have not been here long, but I agree and it doesn't sound too fair.
私は日本語の大学生です, アイルランド人です
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby TrilinguisT » Thu 05.18.2006 6:52 pm

let me get to the point of each thing i tried to state out:

1. Hearing/Seeing/Being told everything is good/great about a country is just faar to unatural.

2. you guys clearly admitted Native Japanese folks are textbooks ... "guuh .. they are fluent, so like.. they would know so much more than a learner or somebody else who knows the answer" > from my view, those who are expirienced have no chance at telling you the same thing. do you ever stop to think that they speak the language, not teach ?

3. Japanese is limited to japan, if you're going to learn it, mightas well get a feel for the culture and have some background knowledge at hand before you go, there's clearly no point in studying a foreign language if it isnt acessible to you other than manga and anime and all that crap. telling someone knew to the culture everything that eveything is all good is not good (trust me, its annoying) and some ppl will smarten up and start to wonder, "japan must be like heaven?" .

4.sarcasm is annoying.. make ppl look like b*es too. i would avoid it if i were you.
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RE: I've only been a member for 3 months, but ....

Postby hungryhotei » Thu 05.18.2006 7:22 pm

Jim wrote:
It's one thing to be a fluent foreign speaker, its another to speak it every day since day 1.


Trilingist covered this but, the difference is that unless the native speaker has experience in teaching, the foreign speaker will be much more able to explain the relevant grammar point. Native speakers haven't gone though the same learning process so they don't know as well which parts of the language are hard, and how to make them easier, or where to find the best resources. They are also less likely to know the English terminology about parts of Japanese, and since English is not their native language may not be able to provide as good an explaination as an English speaker. For a beginning learner, (especially as we aren't speaking here) an advanced foreign speaker is a better resource than a native speaker. (If the native speaker has experience in teaching Japanese as a foreign language things are a bit different)

However, for intermediate/advanced learners native speakers are much more valuable. Native speakers are much better than foreign speakers at juding how natural something sounds - something much more important for more advanced learners. In addition, these learners are able to read, and infact prefer, explainations in Japanese rather than English.
Last edited by hungryhotei on Thu 05.18.2006 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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