Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Spotted any errors or found anything that doesn't work?
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Xmax
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Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by Xmax » Wed 04.13.2005 6:16 am

Hi Clay!
First of all, mad props for your awesome website!!!
I'm starting to learn japanese now and I find it very useful and... fun (which is also important when you're attempting something so hard as learining japanese ;)).

I would like to report a (possible) error in Hiragana Lessons, about the stroke order of "mo" character.

Your page shows the vertical stroke painted first, followed by the two horizontal strokes.

I find that a bit strange, for two reasons:

1. as a rule of thumb, horizontal strokes in all look-alike hiragana characters (e.g. ma, ho, chi...) come first;

2. the vertical stroke has to bend right, then up and it has to end near the gap between the two horizontal strokes, and this is actually easier to obtain if you draw the horizontal strokes first rather than the opposite.

Puzzled about this, I checked other online resources (e.g. http://members.aol.com/writejapan/hiragana/writutor.htm) which show the horizontal strokes drawn first. :o

So I'm wondering: did I spot a mistake in your page (in such a case I'm happy I could put a tiny contribute to your huge work), or there are some other reasons behind your choice?

Thanks in advance.
Kindest Regards,
Max

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dreamingxashley
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by dreamingxashley » Wed 04.13.2005 8:43 am

http://www.thejapanshop.net/gifts/shita1.htm

That as far as I can tell is an official stroke order for the Hirigana, though Ive been told stroke order for the Kana isnt as important like it is for Kanji. Also, not all characters follow the "horizontal strokes first" rule.

According to that link, the vertical stroke does come first in Mo, then the two horizontal strokes. I know that the numbers are covered up, as is half the kana, but if you look at the others you will notice that the red stroke is the first one, then blue, then green, then purple... and the vertical stroke on Mo is red. :)
--Ashley

Xmax
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by Xmax » Wed 04.13.2005 10:43 am

dreamingxashley wrote:
I know that the numbers are covered up, as is half the kana, but if you look at the others you will notice that the red stroke is the first one, then blue, then green, then purple... and the vertical stroke on Mo is red. :)
Yeah, I can see it (it's right below the barcode :))
Thank you very much for the pointer, now I'm sure that this is the official stroke order for "mo" ( @Clay: sorry for the false alarm ^^; )

Anyway, since I still find it easier, I think I will stick to the "unofficial stroke order" for this kana
...and may the Kana-God forgive me for this exception :D:D:D

Kind Regards,
Max

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Spaztick
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by Spaztick » Wed 04.13.2005 12:13 pm

also, when writing with a pen, i found it easier to draw the horizontal lines straight; it still looks like "mo" and it's easier for me to write. of course, you can't do that if you ever write it with a brush.
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Xmax
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by Xmax » Thu 04.14.2005 3:59 am

Spaztick wrote:
also, when writing with a pen, i found it easier to draw the horizontal lines straight
...aren't they *supposed* to be straight? :|

Schattenjedi

RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by Schattenjedi » Thu 04.14.2005 6:57 am

Xmax wrote:Anyway, since I still find it easier, I think I will stick to the "unofficial stroke order" for this kana
...and may the Kana-God forgive me for this exception :D:D:D
I wouldn't recommend that. The stroke order of the Kana and early Kanji sort of have a psychological effect on how you write the later Kanji. You get the feel of what the stroke order will be and whether the stroke needs to be written left to right or opposite. After I knew a couple hundred Kanji I could almost always guess the correct stroke order of other Kanjis.
Last edited by Schattenjedi on Fri 04.15.2005 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Xmax
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by Xmax » Thu 04.14.2005 8:31 am

Schattenjedi wrote:
The stroke order of the Kana and early Kanji sort of have a psychological effect on how you write the later Kanji.
mmm... that's a good point indeed... I didn't think about this "psycological effect", I was just worried about the readability of my calligraphy.
I guess that is really a good reason to learn the "official" stroke order.

[Disclaimer: I don't know if the following will confirm what you just said, but I report it here for completeness ;)]

On the other hand, being still puzzled about this apparent inconsistency between "mo" and other kana as "ma" or "ki", I had a brilliant idea: since kana are actually derived from certain kanji... I thought that such odd stroke order would come from the original kanji which "mo" was derived from - and for a while I congratulated to myself for the brilliant person I am.
Then I had a check: the original kanji is 毛 ("fur/hair/feather"; on-reading: モウ) and... guess what?... for 毛 the horizontal strokes come first! :@ *ouch* :(

Well, we can't make a reason for everything, ne.
I guess this will be one of those cases... ;)

Kind Regards,
Xmax (still learning)

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clay
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by clay » Thu 04.14.2005 6:15 pm

Sorry for catching this thread late.

I have no idea why も and ま are written differently. Yumi doesn't know either, but she was told in elementary school by doing it the 'correct' way, you are learning the best way to make it the most beautiful. :D

Clay

Xmax
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by Xmax » Fri 04.15.2005 5:27 am

by doing it the 'correct' way, you are learning the best way to make it the most beautiful. :D
LOL! Thats a 100% japanese explanation!!! B)
Kind Regards,
Xmax

nailsoft
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RE: Hiragana Lessons: "mo" stroke order

Post by nailsoft » Fri 04.15.2005 7:38 am

Just look at a Japanese Garden and you will know why.

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