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The particle "to"

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The particle "to"

Postby Diggity » Wed 04.13.2005 1:50 pm

I know that the particle "to" is used to connect nouns

Watashi wa eigo to nihongo o hanashimasu.
I speak English and Japanese.

However I have a question on its placement. If I want to say -
I have english and Japanese class today.

Watashi wa eigo no kurasu to nihongo no kurasu ga arimasu.
Watashi wa eigo to nihongo no kurasu ga arimasu.

I know that the first sentence is correct, but is the second? I'm not sure how to use the particle in conjunction with the particle "no" I guess.
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Spaztick » Wed 04.13.2005 2:50 pm

Sort of. The words English and Japanese aren't nouns in this case, they're adjectives because they are describing what type of class.

When you link adjectives together in sentences, you have a couple rules for those, and there's a site that explains it better than I can:

http://www.geocities.jp/nihongoguide/compound.html
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Diggity » Wed 04.13.2005 7:37 pm

So what you are saying is that the first sentence is the only correct one then using "to"

Watashi wa eigo no kurasu to nihongo no kurasu ga arimasu.

Thanks.
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Oni » Wed 04.13.2005 10:31 pm

My understanding of japanese is that, 英語クラス (eigokurasu) is a name. Same as 日本語クラス (nihongokurasu). There is no need for の (no) to show possession (english doesn't own class).

So...
私は英語クラスと日本語クラスあります。
watashi wa eigokurasu to nihongokurasu arimasu.
I have a english class and a japanese class.

FYI: nihongo (and like) are nouns, not adjectives.
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Diggity » Wed 04.13.2005 11:51 pm

Well I am taking the "eigo no kurasu" directly from the Genki textbook. Just as konpuutaa no kurasu is computer class...
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Mukade » Thu 04.14.2005 9:35 am

日本語のクラス and 英語のクラス are correct.

Also, either of the sentences you've used are okay. 日本語 and 英語 in this context are not adjectives - this is why you have to use の to connect the two nouns in the first place. の always indicates a possessive, and in this case, it is "English's class" and "Japanese's class." Very odd in English, but perfectly okay in Japanese.

So, don't worry about all the rules of adjectival connection in this sentence.
英語と日本語のクラスがあります。
and
英語のクラスと日本語のクラスがあります。
are both fine just as they are.
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Diggity » Thu 04.14.2005 11:48 am

Arigatou!
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Xmax » Fri 04.15.2005 9:20 am

Mukade wrote:
日本語のクラス and 英語のクラス are correct.
[...]
の always indicates a possessive, and in this case, it is "English's class" and "Japanese's class." Very odd in English, but perfectly okay in Japanese.


Being Italian, this wouldn't have been a problem for me as in Italy we say exatcly as in Japan (e.g. "corso di Giapponese", where di is the italian equivalent for no particle).
The real problem for us Italians is the inversion of the order, as we don't have a genitive form like 's in English (so we actually can only say something like "class of Japanese" which is radically different from "Japanese no class").
So, amusingly enough, the best way for me to remember the correct order of the words around no in Japanese is through English genitive 's, which I'm already used to... LOL!
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby Diggity » Fri 04.15.2005 8:03 pm

Wait... can the particle "to" be used to connect formal names as well... or only "non-living" nouns?

Watashi to Suu-san wa Kyoto ni ikimashita.
I and Sue went to Kyoto.
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RE: The particle "to"

Postby toryn » Sat 04.16.2005 12:56 am

Yep, that's fine, Diggity. Names are still nouns.
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