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Important points when writing in Japanese

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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby Zeo » Fri 05.19.2006 1:05 pm

Nice thread, I'll sticky it right away. ;)
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 05.19.2006 1:34 pm

keatonatron wrote:
kotori wrote:
Kurisuchan wrote:
Can some one explain what お前 is I know the kanji, but I don't understand what it could mean. I was told 君[きみ」 is a very informal you.


お前 - omae - informal/rude 'you'
君 - informal/intimate 'you'


As I pointed out in another thread: In the wrong situation, "お前" is a fightin' word. Go to Japan and use it with people you don't know and you just might get yourself beat up.

One thing Coco pointed out in her post above, learning politeness is very important, because there are very small differences between saying something in a way that will get a good response and saying it in a way that will make the other person angry (note Coco's examples). お前, used in the proper situation, is a perfectly normal, common word. In the wrong situation, it can get you into a lot of trouble.


politeness in every culture is the best.. one of the reasons i always scratch my head when friends always want to know the etchi phrases and bad words.. i just tell them that the japanese don't have any and leave it at that..

besides it is always better to be far too formal than to be far too informal. even the japanese have only so much tolerance for a breach in their cultural etiquette
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby AJBryant » Fri 05.19.2006 1:44 pm

I still like to use the kanji for
 こと : 事
いる : 居る
ある : 有る

Am I wrong?


Have you ever heard the expression "hen na gaijin"? That's what they will call you.

They will look at you the same way you'd look at someone if he told you, "I'm taking the motor car out for a perambulation and then I'll go see the moving pictures."

Tony
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby redfoxer » Fri 05.19.2006 1:56 pm

AJBryant wrote:
I still like to use the kanji for
 こと : 事
いる : 居る
ある : 有る

Am I wrong?


Have you ever heard the expression "hen na gaijin"? That's what they will call you.

They will look at you the same way you'd look at someone if he told you, "I'm taking the motor car out for a perambulation and then I'll go see the moving pictures."

Tony


lol. they probably call me weird because i still like using eikoku instead of igirisu
Last edited by redfoxer on Fri 05.19.2006 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby AJBryant » Fri 05.19.2006 4:42 pm

Well, in all my government forms and so on when I lived in Japan, I wrote 米国 rather than アメリカ -- but that was simply because it took up less space and was quicker. :)


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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby irairashiteiru » Fri 05.19.2006 8:09 pm

I find this quite interesting as a linguistic researcher... Firstly there is a big difference in the way the Japanese and Westerners use Email, for one..
Politness is an important issue, but forums such as these, linguistically speaking, are quite new. As a result there is obviously going to be cultural, and linguistic problems especially when the majority of members using this forum are Westerners, using their non native tongue. Technology has fundamentally changed the way we communicate, and actually had a physically effect on language.. At this early stage, according to extensive research in this area, there is no right or wrong way to communicate in an electronic medium.. but just like in any social group one needs to make sure not to offend others. hence being polite is usually a good idea. This is one of the first times i have actually seen people discussing this as a forum and am both impressed at everyones linguitic maturity and intrigued by everyones responses. I know many collegues who would love to read this...
Oh and AJBryant... you can use the kanji for Iru Aru etc, but it is extremely rare for a native to do so...
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby AJBryant » Fri 05.19.2006 8:56 pm

Oh and AJBryant... you can use the kanji for Iru Aru etc, but it is extremely rare for a native to do so...


I know. That's the whole point. It's rare. Hardly *ANYONE* does so.


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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby crowfeather » Fri 05.19.2006 11:19 pm

Thank you for this thread.
Unfortunately many of us must rely primarily on books to learn Japanese.

The Random House J-E and E-J dictionary has Konnichi wa in kanji on page 135.

Perhaps some one should contact them to correct that in future printings.
We make enough errors just from our missunderstanding or forgetfulness , without a dictionary compounding the errors.

Thanks again
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby nikonikoniko » Sat 05.20.2006 12:35 am

Maybe Random House copied their entry from Jim Breen's WWWJDIC. He also has こんにちは in kanji, and doesn't note "(uk)" (usually kana) after the entry to let people know the kanji usage is rare. However, the [ex]amples do show correct usage, so I can half-forgive him. :)
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby Infidel » Sun 05.21.2006 5:24 am

Thanks for this Keo san. I remember reading in more than one book that Boku was childish. So when I remembered this I tried to use ore in one of my lessons with coco san. When she mentioned it that my use of ore was odd, I told her that I was just trying to not sound childish. Then she told me that the prime minister will even use boku.

So it must not be childish. Still, I get really annoyed when I read something in a book, attempt to use it, and find out it was wrong.

I still like to use the kanji for
 こと : 事
いる : 居る
ある : 有る

Am I wrong?


Have you ever heard the expression "hen na gaijin"? That's what they will call you.

They will look at you the same way you'd look at someone if he told you, "I'm taking the motor car out for a perambulation and then I'll go see the moving pictures."

Tony


Not to disagree, I heard that people who use kanji alot where they normally shouldn't are called wapuro baka. Because kanji are much easier to type now than before some Japanese will use it everywhere in an attempt to make themselves seem better educated, or something.

I think large chunks of that should be made into part of the FAQ, if not the whole thing. It probably should be a sticky, at least


I agree that it is sticky worthy, after the fact. At the same time I thought I would caution about stickies. There is a law of diminishing returns with sticky threads. The more threads you sticky, the less likely people are to read them. There is definitely a point where they should be combined/converted into a faq, or both.

Of course the law of diminishing returns applies to faqs too. But at least they are searchable, especially if combined on one page.
Last edited by Infidel on Sun 05.21.2006 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby coco » Wed 07.05.2006 4:07 am

keatonatronさん
この投稿は非常に役立つ情報がたくさん含まれているので
waga-wikiの方で加筆して残してはいかがでしょう。
埋もれてしまうには惜しいから。
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby paul_b » Wed 07.05.2006 4:55 am

redfoxer wrote:
lol. they probably call me weird because i still like using eikoku instead of igirisu

I really must stop using エゲレス.
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby paul_b » Wed 07.05.2006 5:01 am

nikoniko1975 wrote:
Maybe Random House copied their entry from Jim Breen's WWWJDIC. He also has こんにちは in kanji, and doesn't note "(uk)" (usually kana) after the entry to let people know the kanji usage is rare. However, the [ex]amples do show correct usage, so I can half-forgive him. :)

Instead of half-forgiving him why not submit an amendment to the こんにちは entry? That form's there for a reason you know.

coco wrote:
keatonatronさん
この投稿は非常に役立つ情報がたくさん含まれているので
waga-wikiの方で加筆して残してはいかがでしょう。
埋もれてしまうには惜しいから。

waga-wikiに書きたくてもユーザー名とパスワードを当らないかぎり書き込みは出来ないでしょう。僕だってオンラインクイズのページがあってもリンクが追加出来ません。
Last edited by paul_b on Wed 07.05.2006 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby paul_b » Thu 07.06.2006 2:22 am

nikonikoniko wrote:
For the record, I have, and while he's addressed most of my corrections or amendments, that one he hasn't. Maybe it slipped through the cracks while he was incorporating my corrected readings of various kanji related to marine life. :)

Well in my experience with maintaining the Examples collection I know that a small(?) but significant proportion of comment submissions disappear into the aether when the server's sendmail program stuffs up (or similar). Depending on how busy he is it can take a few weeks to catch up with the amendment backlog but otherwise it really should have been dealt with.
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RE: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby zengargoyle » Thu 07.06.2006 10:20 pm

i've made a start at putting information from this thread into the wiki, take a look [wiki]Writing and Conversation Points[/wiki].

it's a bit haphazard, i just took interesting parts from the posts in this thread and added them to the page. feel free to give it a touchup. :)
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