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koi Nobori

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koi Nobori

Postby coco » Tue 05.02.2006 11:55 pm

Yumi-san and Clay-san kindly provide wonderful material.
Please read the artcle "聞き取り Listening practice: Koi Nobori & Golden Week" on the top page.

This material is quite advanced level, full of nouns based on Japanese culture. However it is good +useful to know about Japan too.

related thread "Mochi"is here.
some explanations about Koinobori by the koinobori company.
Last edited by coco on Mon 04.23.2007 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: koi Nobori

Postby chchan45 » Sat 05.06.2006 5:42 pm

coco,

Thank you for letting us know about this. I do not visit the home page very often so probably I would not have found it myself.

Clay,

Just out of interest, have you done any similar 聞き取り articles on this site before, or is this the first one?
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
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RE: Koi nobori

Postby Paul De Stefano » Sun 05.07.2006 11:13 am

Coco-san, thank you for another example or your willingness to give of your time. When I download Clay-san and Yumi-san's folder, there is a pdf file included that gives the story in standard written Japanese, another copy with furigana and glossary of important terms and a third page with translation notes. Nonetheless I believe that the forum would benefit from your help in expanding our knowledge about how the language is expressed and also about the customs themselves.
For example the translation notes state that "とされています or といわれ and similar passive phrases are often used to explain cultural traditions. This is similar to the English 'they said...' "
I am not sure I understand this completely as I am unfamiliar with this form.
In addition, I believe you underestimate how difficult it is for English speakers to understand spoken Japanese even when they understand each word separately or even perhaps because they expect to understand each word separately. English and most European languages are much more modulated. Japanese sounds like a blurred monotone to us. A good speaker like Yumi-san sounds like a string of pearls, a harsh male speaker sounds like a machine gun. My Japanese friends have told me that most foreigners, even those with reasonably accurate reproduction of kana, modulate their voices so much that they get a little seasick trying to understand them.
Sorry for the long note, Again thank you for your continued kindess in promoting understanding.
Paul
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RE: koi Nobori

Postby coco » Sun 05.07.2006 3:19 pm

Paulさん。
過分なお言葉を頂戴し、恐縮いたしております。

A good speaker like Yumi-san sounds like a string of pearls,

素晴らしい阜サです!
おっしゃるとおり、Yumiさんのようにきれいに日本語を発音できる人は滅多にいません。やはりアナウンサー(/DJ) として専門の訓練を受けた方の発音は違うものだなぁと実感しました。
ですから、この音声教材は非常に質が高く、聞き取りやすいものになっていると思います。(これが無料で使えるというのは、本当に幸運なことです)

これまでに出た発音の疑問なども、このファイルを聴くことで解消できるのではないでしょうか。
Silent "U" 「です」のdesU
これも冒頭の5月5日は、「 こどもの日」でで容易に確認できます。

---
「〜とされている」に関してはALC にいい例文がありました。
今度の大統領は若手だとされているが、考え方は明らかに保守的だ。
The new president is considered to be young, but his views are clearly conservative.
あの国は民主国家だとされているが、先の選挙を見ればそうは思えないだろう。
The country is regarded as a democracy, but you wouldn't think so from the last election
事実とされていること
factoid

「〜とされている」は、新聞記事や論文などのように厳密な阜サを用いる必要性が高い状況下で、断定を避けるために使われることもあります。
 
Last edited by coco on Mon 04.23.2007 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: To clay san

Postby chchan45 » Mon 05.29.2006 9:04 am

clay san,

Thank you very much for the excellent listening exercise. It was really useful.

While working on the article, I think there is a little inconsistency in the transcript. Please double check and correct if necessary. If you do not reply this time next week, I will try to send a PM as well.

I think the last sentence should read:
これは、柏(かしわ)の葉で包(つつ)んだあんこ入(い)りの餅(もち)や、笹(ささ)の葉で巻いた餅を蒸(む)したお菓子です。
rather than (as in the transcript)
柏の葉であんこ入りの餅をつつんだり、笹の葉で巻いた餅をむしたお菓子です。

I listened to the fast version first, but subsequently found that the slow version is the same.
Last edited by chchan45 on Mon 05.29.2006 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
chchan45
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed 03.01.2006 10:01 am
Location: United Kingdom

RE: koi Nobori

Postby chchan45 » Mon 05.29.2006 9:09 am

Also、learners of Japanese should be informed that the following kanjis are not in commonly used (i.e. they are outside 常用漢字).

鯉(こい)
餅(もち)
鎧兜(よろいかぶと)
柏(かしわ)
粽(ちまき)

If you just recognise the first two, I think you should be fine.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
chchan45
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed 03.01.2006 10:01 am
Location: United Kingdom

RE: koi Nobori

Postby clay » Tue 05.30.2006 7:42 am

Clay,

Just out of interest, have you done any similar 聞き取り articles on this site before, or is this the first one?


No, these were the first. When we move to the new server, I will make them into articles here. We are working on more.

chchan45 said:
I think the last sentence should read:
これは、柏(かしわ)の葉で包(つつ)んだあんこ入(い)りの餅(もち)や、笹(ささ)の葉で巻いた餅を蒸(む)したお菓子です。
rather than (as in the transcript)
柏の葉であんこ入りの餅をつつんだり、笹の葉で巻いた餅をむしたお菓子です。


Thanks! Sorry about that. I will fix that.

chchan45
Also、learners of Japanese should be informed that the following kanjis are not in commonly used (i.e. they are outside 常用漢字).

鯉(こい)
餅(もち)
鎧兜(よろいかぶと)
柏(かしわ)
粽(ちまき)


Good point.

Maybe I will post a future 'episode' on the forums for review before posting it on the main site. No matter how many times you go through something it is best to have fresh eyes looking over it.

Thanks for the feedback! I will make the corrections. Let me know if you spot any other errors or have better translations/explanations.

EDIT: I just uploaded the new zip file. Here is a direct link just to the PDF:
http://www.thejapanshop.com/temp/koinobori.pdf
Last edited by clay on Tue 05.30.2006 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: koi Nobori

Postby chchan45 » Mon 06.05.2006 7:43 pm

clay san,

Thank you very much for your reply and correction. I posted last Monday and only came back today to check. I knew that I would be extremely busy last week.

I have had a look at the pdf file and would like to recommend two minor changes:

1. Change
Also、learners of Japanese should be informed that the following kanjis are not in commonly used (i.e. they are outside 常用漢字).
to
Also, learners of Japanese should be informed that the following kanjis are not "commonly used", i.e. they are not part of jouyou kanji (常用漢字).

This should make the sentence grammatically correct. Also, there is no need to mention me in the pdf file.

2. Please add the following kanjis to the list. It was a careless omission:
笹(ささ)
餡子(あんこ)

Once again, thank you very much for your effort in providing material for this site.


If you are looking for materials for your next item, you may be interested to know that I have recently typed out the dialogue for the (in)famous "Japanese tradition - sushi" video by ramenzu and coco has kindly checked and corrected it. You can find it in a thread in the culture message board.

I think the item can serve as an excellent listening exercise and it could be made more prominent. Please be assured that they are just my own opinions and I have no intention of interfering with your running of this website!
Last edited by chchan45 on Mon 06.05.2006 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
chchan45
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed 03.01.2006 10:01 am
Location: United Kingdom

RE: koi Nobori

Postby chchan45 » Mon 06.05.2006 7:56 pm

The article mentioned 端午(たんご). You can find more information about the festival here:
端午 - ja.wikipedia
Dragon boat festival - wiki

Unfortunately the English article contains much less information than the Japanese one. It seems that it is celebrated very differently in Japan (as per the article by clay) and China (dragon boat races, eating rice dumplings).
Last edited by chchan45 on Fri 08.04.2006 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
chchan45
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed 03.01.2006 10:01 am
Location: United Kingdom

RE: koi Nobori

Postby chchan45 » Sat 01.27.2007 7:46 pm

Looks like keroro gunsou has an episode devoted to this festival and it can be watched here. It starts about 12 minutes into the video.

I am very surprised to hear many words in clay's article repeated in the video. There are no English subtitles but if you can understand clay's audio file, you should have no problems understanding this one.

There is just one cultural question I would like to ask. 20:30 into the video, the clock struck five, music (Going Home) could be heard and Fuyuki said he has to go home quickly or he will be told off (速く帰らないと、ママに叱られちゃうよ。). Just before 21:30, Fuyuki's mother recalled that she instructed him to head home if he hears music (「音楽になったら帰りなさい」って言いつけ、ちゃんと覚えたのね。). Do Japanese cities have microphones which play music at a certain time of day and is the purpose of the music to tell children to return home?
Last edited by chchan45 on Sat 01.27.2007 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
chchan45
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed 03.01.2006 10:01 am
Location: United Kingdom


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