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Heading Into The New World War.

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RE: Heading Into The New World War.

Postby CuriousDrew » Fri 07.21.2006 7:56 pm

oKawa wrote:
As for France, they are getting a bad rap! I think they are very smart, and know what they are talking about. After all they did help us [America] beat the Brits! This is why we celebrate the 4th of July in America.


As an English person I admit I also found this confusing. America owes it's independence to France yet it seems to be forgotten. I sometimes wonder if the average American knows who General Lafayette was. I mean if it wasn't for french help the UK may have ended up a lot bigger. :p
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RE: Heading Into The New World War.

Postby clay » Fri 07.21.2006 8:15 pm

CuriousDrew wrote:
As an English person I admit I also found this confusing. America owes it's independence to France yet it seems to be forgotten. I sometimes wonder if the average American knows who General Lafayette was. I mean if it wasn't for french help the UK may have ended up a lot bigger. :p


This is true, but recent memories of their lack of help are much stronger than ancient memories of help. That's the obvious reason why many Americans hold a grudge against the French.
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RE: Heading Into The New World War.

Postby Infidel » Fri 07.21.2006 11:42 pm

CuriousDrew wrote:
oKawa wrote:
As for France, they are getting a bad rap! I think they are very smart, and know what they are talking about. After all they did help us [America] beat the Brits! This is why we celebrate the 4th of July in America.


As an English person I admit I also found this confusing. America owes it's independence to France yet it seems to be forgotten. I sometimes wonder if the average American knows who General Lafayette was. I mean if it wasn't for french help the UK may have ended up a lot bigger. :p


Hehe, "We will never forget you Lafayette........errr, who was Lafayette again?"

While France contributed significantly towards American Independence, it was more to cripple the English than out of altruism. Besides, it wasn't the French people that helped America, it was French royalty. Ultimately, the French people rewarded the royalty for American independence by killing most of them.

The goverment that we owe gratitude to is dead. The goverment that replaced it hasn't supported us much at all, rather it has been little more than dead weight we have had to carry, and frankly, we've been getting tired of it.
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RE: Heading Into The New World War.

Postby Shibakoen » Sat 07.22.2006 1:44 pm

Schattenjedi wrote:
I did indeed read your reply and like I said it would have severe consequences for China were they to demand the repayment of the debt.


You may have read it, but then you didn't understand it. The point is the Chinese can't "demand repayment of the debt." IT'S NOT POSSIBLE. They GET paid back as time goes by in interest payments. They can SELL their bonds, but there has to be a buyer. "Demand Repayment" is ridiculous. And as illustrated today in the NYTimes, foreign institutions (Central Banks and the like) are relatively small holders of American debt instruments. Foreign individuals comprise a much larger portion of the buyers. Think about it, why would a Japanese investor buy a bond from the Japanese government with a very low interest rate when they can buy American bonds with higher interest rates? So, even if China decided that they would do something they COULD do, which is to put the bonds they have up for sale, there would be many other buyers willing to take the bonds off their hands. However, the Chinese would LOSE money because as desparate sellers always do, they would sell at a lower price than it would be worth. It wouldn't affect the Americans at all. It just changes the address that the interest payments are sent to.
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RE: Heading Into The New World War.

Postby caroline » Sat 07.22.2006 4:57 pm

Infidel wrote:
CuriousDrew wrote:
oKawa wrote:
As for France, they are getting a bad rap! I think they are very smart, and know what they are talking about. After all they did help us [America] beat the Brits! This is why we celebrate the 4th of July in America.


As an English person I admit I also found this confusing. America owes it's independence to France yet it seems to be forgotten. I sometimes wonder if the average American knows who General Lafayette was. I mean if it wasn't for french help the UK may have ended up a lot bigger. :p


Hehe, "We will never forget you Lafayette........errr, who was Lafayette again?"

While France contributed significantly towards American Independence, it was more to cripple the English than out of altruism. Besides, it wasn't the French people that helped America, it was French royalty. Ultimately, the French people rewarded the royalty for American independence by killing most of them.

The goverment that we owe gratitude to is dead. The goverment that replaced it hasn't supported us much at all, rather it has been little more than dead weight we have had to carry, and frankly, we've been getting tired of it.



US and France have quite an history together, and one of agreements and desagreements. My american friends, we had a revolution in 1789, and that made us a democracy.... As for cutting royalty's head, that not a french monopoly in revolutions... We have all of us an history with some upheavals, like civil wars for some. French governements might not agree with what american governments do all the time, but that doesn't have to make French and americans people ennemies. Nevertheless, it's true that for time being, I might not wish to go and spend holidays (or work) in the US... for why to run into unpleasantness from people sometimes ill informed if one can avoid it?
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RE: Heading Into The New World War.

Postby Infidel » Sun 07.23.2006 3:50 am

Schattenjedi wrote:

I can agree with most of that. I can't agree with the last part though. How on earth can you call an empire like America non-expansionist? The U.S. has more than 700 bases and counting on foreign soil. As for supporting global stability, America has a very mixed record there. In Asia and Europe it's overwhelmingly positive, in South America horrendous.


Good question. The simple answer is that America does believe in expanded influence. Having bases in foreign countries is a matter of millitary influence, not millitary control. We fight our wars in other peoples countries rather than have other people fight wars in ours. But we are not expansionist, otherwise Japan, Germany, Iraq, South Vietnam, Korea, the Phillipenes, etc, would be States, obeying our laws. But we don't fight to force our laws on others. We fight to stop others from forcing their laws on others. But it could just be that the real reason we go to war is because we don't want to redraw our maps again. It's really annoying when countries change their name and borders.

Other countries have some bases here too. WW1 taught us the importance of bases in foreign countries for the purpose of millitary projection. WW2 was where we first really applied that lesson.

As for mixed record. We are human too. We screw up. Still, it's better to try and fail than to beg someone else to do it. Still, we have been sucessful in S. Africa. Afterall, everything there has had a relatively localized effect.

Back to the current conflict though. What purpose would an American military action in the moment serve? Wouldn't America do the exact same thing that Israel is doing now? The only real decision America has to make now is whether to support Israel's actions or not.


I really don't know that there is a right answer to this question. I think it will simply be choosing the lesser of evils.
Last edited by Infidel on Sun 07.23.2006 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Heading Into The New World War.

Postby AJBryant » Sun 07.23.2006 10:29 am

Wouldn't America do the exact same thing that Israel is doing now?


We certainly have done so in the past. Look up "Pancho Villa."


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