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Ruby in WagaWiki ?

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Ruby in WagaWiki ?

Postby paul_b » Sat 08.19.2006 3:04 am

I thought this was more appropriate to talk about in [wiki=Talk:WagaWiki_Policies]WagaWiki[/wiki] itself but I suppose everybody should have their chance to have their say.

Use of Ruby tag

As you probably know the Ruby tag is used in HTML to display Furigana however it is not natively supported by many browsers (including the popular Firefox). Words with proper ruby tags will display like ...

食(た)べます

on Firefox. The two questions are 1) Is that 'better' than just not giving the reading 食べます or does the bracketted text distract? and 2) Should WagaWiki have a policy on using / not using ruby?
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RE: Ruby in WagaWiki ?

Postby magma » Sat 08.19.2006 3:13 am

It looks like we're balancing "ease of use" vs. "ease of creation". Do we require ruby tags and make it more work for the Wiki-editors, or do we abhor them and make it more work for the readers?

Editing Wiki pages is already time-consuming. Requiring people to add ruby tags will only make them more reluctant. It also seems unnecessary to require them from page authors when concerned citizens can just come around and add those tags later.

Sometime I don't want ruby text. What if I want to practice my reading, checking my answers with the WWWJDIC? And those brackets are really annoying/distracting, not to mention that they look just like the notation for an "optional" syllable, as in 分(ら)ない.

Newbies and people who DON'T feel like practicing their reading would surely want ruby (even an ugly bracketed version). However, you could argue that POPjisyo makes ruby unnecessary, since readers can just browse the Wiki with that--provided they know it exists. Maybe put a link to it on every page?

If people DO write pages with those ruby tags, then until browsers start rendering them as proper ruby (without brackets), I'd like to have an option to display Wiki pages without them (just like I can display TJP in whatever colorscheme I want).

In lieu of ruby tags, another possiblity is rewriting the sentence in pure kana underneath the kanji version, but making the textcolor the same as the background. Then people who want to see it can drag the mouse over it, and people who don't can pretend it's not there.
Last edited by magma on Sat 08.19.2006 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Ruby in WagaWiki ?

Postby Infidel » Sat 08.19.2006 3:49 am

I think if someone wants to go throug the trouble of adding ruby tags they should be appreciated, but I am against setting a policy either way. I do think the reading should be nearby, whether in rubi or neatly to the side in roumaji should be the creator's preference. Probably based on the difficulty of the material.
Last edited by Infidel on Sat 08.19.2006 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
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RE: Ruby in WagaWiki ?

Postby paul_b » Sat 08.19.2006 3:52 am

magma wrote:
It looks like we're balancing "ease of use" vs. "ease of creation". Do we require ruby tags and make it more work for the Wiki-editors, or do we abhor them and make it more work for the readers?

I certainly wasn't considering _requiring_ ruby tags. If anything I was wondering whether they should be officially discouraged.
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RE: Ruby in WagaWiki ?

Postby magma » Sat 08.19.2006 4:00 am

In that case, I agree with Infidel.
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RE: Ruby in WagaWiki ?

Postby paul_b » Sat 08.19.2006 4:47 am

Infidel wrote:
I do think the reading should be nearby, whether in rubi or neatly to the side in roumaji should be the creator's preference.

Having the reading too near can be a disadvantage. If you have furigana / yomikata it's difficult to tell if you really knew the kanji because you tend to read the kana version. At beginning levels the advantages probably outweigh the disadvantages though.
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RE: Ruby in WagaWiki ?

Postby Infidel » Sat 08.19.2006 5:44 am

Well, for the more intermediate pages, maybe we could set the reading in mouseover text like Tae Kim's grammar page, or something like the spoiler tags someone made for this forum, or at the very least, they could be put at the bottom of the page. Advanced users can just cut and paste into and e-dic if they aren't sure. But I still think beginner stuff should have the reading in rubi or immediately adjacent, above, or below.
Last edited by Infidel on Sat 08.19.2006 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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