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Shogun

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Shogun

Postby Alien » Fri 09.01.2006 3:33 pm

well here goes nothing ,making a post about James Clavell's book -great book by the way-, and not only about his book ,there are more books out there that are about japan and might help he who wants to learn japanese .
So this is the place where you cand talk about this book and others as long as the book is good ,is about japan and can help me learn the language :D,by the way i'm only half way into Shogun soo please doN'T tell me what happens next, ;)10x

hope somebody else except me will post in this thread :D
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RE: Shogun

Postby richvh » Fri 09.01.2006 3:41 pm

Well, Toranaga is (loosely) based on Ieyasu Tokugawa, so if you know that period of Japanese history, you already know the general plan of what happens in the book/miniseries.

(Cue Tony to complain about all the things the book got wrong.)
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RE: Shogun

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 09.01.2006 4:22 pm

I enjoyed the stories of Nobunagas ambition.
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RE: Shogun

Postby Shibakoen » Fri 09.01.2006 8:00 pm

"Ryoma" apparently doesn't take place at the same time. It's still my favorite book so far. And I still don't like the ending. :(
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RE: Shogun

Postby AJBryant » Fri 09.01.2006 8:08 pm

richvh
(Cue Tony to complain about all the things the book got wrong.)


Don't get me started. ;)

This was the book that got me into Japan in the first place -- a librarian friend suggested I read it when I was a freshman in college in.... um.... 1978. I used to read it twice a year. But having ended up doing what I do... well, I haven't been able to read it for over 1- years now. More like 15.

Shibakoen
"Ryoma" takes place at the same time.


Shogun takes place in late 1600. Ryoma is a mid-19th C. biography. Hardly the same time. ;)


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RE: Shogun

Postby Shibakoen » Fri 09.01.2006 8:17 pm

AJBryant wrote:

Shibakoen
"Ryoma" takes place at the same time.


Shogun takes place in late 1600. Ryoma is a mid-19th C. biography. Hardly the same time. ;)


Tony


Oops, my bad. For some reason I thought that Ieyasu Tokugawa was Shogun at the begining... Doh! Anyway, it's still my favorite book, even if I am bad with names.

PS., You consider it a biography? I've been wondering how accurate it is so I've been looking for other stuff to read about him. I thought it was a bit sensationalized and probably exaggerated at points, so I've been wary of calling it a "biography" or a "history". It reads as a great novel even if there are embellishments. Anyway, I've been looking for more books about him to get more historically accurate perspective.
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RE: Shogun

Postby Oyaji » Fri 09.01.2006 9:45 pm

Tokugawa Ieyasu was born in 1543, and named shogun in 1603, becoming the first Tokugawa shogun.

Sakamoto Ryoma was born in 1836, and was tragically murdered in 1867, just before the Meiji Restoration.

One of the few manga I recommend reading is 「お〜い!竜馬」. As you say, I'm not sure how accurate it is in detail, but it is an interesting way to learn about Japan at the end of the Tokugawa Period.

(I dedicate this, my 500th post, to 坂本 龍馬)
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RE: Shogun

Postby Shibakoen » Sun 09.03.2006 9:44 pm

Oyaji wrote:
Tokugawa Ieyasu was born in 1543, and named shogun in 1603, becoming the first Tokugawa shogun.

Sakamoto Ryoma was born in 1836, and was tragically murdered in 1867, just before the Meiji Restoration.

One of the few manga I recommend reading is 「お〜い!竜馬」. As you say, I'm not sure how accurate it is in detail, but it is an interesting way to learn about Japan at the end of the Tokugawa Period.

(I dedicate this, my 500th post, to 坂本 龍馬)


I Googled it but everything was obviously in nihongo so I will ask my girl to see if she can find it... Thank you. Any reason why they use the simplified "Dragon"?
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RE: Shogun

Postby Oyaji » Sun 09.03.2006 10:14 pm

Shibakoen wrote:
Any reason why they use the simplified "Dragon"?


The easiest way to think of it is that 坂本 竜馬 is a popular semi-fictional character based on 坂本 龍馬.

竜馬 is pictured as a gregarious, gentle, honest, kind to a fault child who grows into a visionary who changes the course of Japan's history, while keeping his childhood qualities.

Although most people have this image of 竜馬 in mind when they think of 坂本 龍馬, many historians claim the truth is quite different, both regarding his personality, and his role in history.
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RE: Shogun

Postby Shibakoen » Sun 09.03.2006 10:41 pm

Oyaji wrote:
Shibakoen wrote:
Any reason why they use the simplified "Dragon"?


The easiest way to think of it is that 坂本 竜馬 is a popular semi-fictional character based on 坂本 龍馬.

竜馬 is pictured as a gregarious, gentle, honest, kind to a fault child who grows into a visionary who changes the course of Japan's history, while keeping his childhood qualities.

Although most people have this image of 竜馬 in mind when they think of 坂本 龍馬, many historians claim the truth is quite different, both regarding his personality, and his role in history.


Can you recommend any other books about him? I want to learn all I can about him. He seems like a very interesting person. I mean the way he was portrayed in "Ryoma" it would have been like George Bush walking up to Ahmedenijad from Iran and Kim Jung-Il, and convincing them to give up nuclear weapons. I mean the guy just sat down with his ememies and convinced them to go against the Shogun for the sake of Japan. Even if it is embellishment, there's a profound lesson to be learned. Who are you most likely to listen to and respect -- some guy who talks about how evil you are, or someone who reasons with you? To me it shed a whole new light on the adage, "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer." Instead of doing it out of paranoia to know what your enemies are doing, you befriend them because that's the best way to convince someone to do what you want. The idea, to me, is very profound and should be used more often in modern diplomacy. (I guess I'm kinda PO'd because we don't talk to the Iranians or Syrians. How can you expect to have them listen to you when you don't talk to them?) Anyway, huge sidetrack, but I want to learn as much about him as possible. Even, and especially, the accounts critical of him (gotta get all sides of the story, ne?).
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RE: Shogun

Postby blue-sadie » Tue 10.17.2006 4:10 pm

I'm on chapter 11. I had forgotten about it for a while but I'm getting back into it. Still absolutely LOADS to go though.
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