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Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

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Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby BrianM » Mon 09.18.2006 8:47 pm

A chinese coworker of mine is very upset that im learning Japanese, he says that they stole the Chinese language and culture. And that The Chinese-Japanese relationship is the same as the Jews and German. Is that true???
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby Nibble » Mon 09.18.2006 8:53 pm

No, he's an idiot.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby anikaliki » Mon 09.18.2006 9:03 pm

Yea I agree with Nibble, I don't think most Chinese people act that way either.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby chikara » Mon 09.18.2006 9:36 pm

I think you will find that he meant "Japan is to the Chinese what Germany was to the Jews". I don't recall Germany ever invading Israel (although Germany's allies the Turks occupied Palestine during WWI).

There is a lot of bad feeling between many Chinese people and the Japanese. My understanding is that most of this stems from the atrocities committed by the Japanese against Chinese civilians during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937 - 1945).
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby BrianM » Mon 09.18.2006 11:14 pm

chikara wrote:
I think you will find that he meant "Japan is to the Chinese what Germany was to the Jews". I don't recall Germany ever invading Israel (although Germany's allies the Turks occupied Palestine during WWI).

There is a lot of bad feeling between many Chinese people and the Japanese. My understanding is that most of this stems from the atrocities committed by the Japanese against Chinese civilians during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937 - 1945).

Yea thats what i told him. I just said Isreal cause i thought it wouldve made more sense...but i guess i shouldve just said Jews. Anyways, i knew about the whole ordeal with the Chinese and the Japanese(Im a WW2 buff)...but arent the chinese communists now?
Last edited by BrianM on Mon 09.18.2006 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby chikara » Mon 09.18.2006 11:21 pm

Mainland China is communist but I don't see what that has to do with it.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby firescorpy » Mon 09.18.2006 11:34 pm

I am ethnic Chinese but a Japanese citizen, and most people in China have some bitter feeling towards the Japanese, but most are pretty mild. I think most Chinese people are OK with Japanese, and some even admire them for their great country. I think Koreans hate Japanese more than Chinese hates Japanese.. thats just from my personal experience.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby becks23 » Mon 09.18.2006 11:46 pm

chikara wrote:
I think you will find that he meant "Japan is to the Chinese what Germany was to the Jews". I don't recall Germany ever invading Israel (although Germany's allies the Turks occupied Palestine during WWI).

There is a lot of bad feeling between many Chinese people and the Japanese. My understanding is that most of this stems from the atrocities committed by the Japanese against Chinese civilians during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937 - 1945).


Have you forgotten the Halocaust?? China's Halocaust was Nanjing. Japanese Militants killed something like 500 000 chinese people in Nanjing during WW2. The reason the Chinese are upset over it(for other than the obvious) is that it went unknown and still to some extent does, where as Germany's genocide was made very public and is a reminder of our past mistakes. Japan performed a genocide along the same lines as Germany(but not to the same extent), they wern't punished for it while Germany was.
Last edited by becks23 on Mon 09.18.2006 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby chikara » Mon 09.18.2006 11:49 pm

What has Najing got to do with Germany invading Israel Image

Edit: The Second Sino-Japanese war is included in WWII so we are talking about the same thing.
Last edited by chikara on Mon 09.18.2006 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby BrianM » Mon 09.18.2006 11:56 pm

chikara wrote:
What has Najing got to do with Germany invading Israel Image

Edit: The Second Sino-Japanese war is included in WWII so we are talking about the same thing.

The reason i mentioned Germany and Isreal is because my Chinese co-worker said that their relationship is the same as the Chinese and Japanese. And my question was to see if its true from some natives of each country
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby chikara » Mon 09.18.2006 11:58 pm

I was referring to Becks' response to my post.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby keatonatron » Tue 09.19.2006 2:02 am

I wrote a whole paper on Japan's military history and how it affects modern relations. Although it doesn't address this issue directly, you might find the following excerpt interesting. If anyone wants to read the whole thing, just let me know:

An event still controversial today is the apparent massacre that took place at Nanking when the Japanese invaded. Supposedly the Japanese closed off the city and proceeded to rape and slaughter 300,000 unarmed civilians. However, there is substantial evidence to show that the massacre never took place. Official census reports from before and after the occupation of Nanking don’t account for the supposed 300,000 death toll, and many American journalists who were present in the city have reported that there was no such massacre. Iris Chang wrote a book titled “The Rape of Nanking,” in which she attempts to bring to light, in detail, the atrocities the Japanese committed in Nanking. However, this book has come under much criticism by scholars and historians, and is considered by many to be a work of propaganda and far from accurate. With help from American and Chinese scholars, Shudo Higashinakano, a professor of intellectual history at Asia University, researched and wrote a book titled “The Nanking Massacre: Fact Versus Fiction” in which he provides a large amount of possible proof that the massacre never occurred, including discrepancies in military documents, errors in photographs and news reels, and reports from foreign journalists present at the time.
It may well be impossible to ever know if the Nanking massacre really happened or not. Some people claim to have been there and seen it; other’s claim to see proof in numbers and photographs that the massacre was merely an act of propaganda created by a weak Chinese government with no means of winning the war by military strength.
There were, however, other atrocities committed during World War II that are undisputed facts, although they pale in comparison to what Nazi Germany carried out. Like Germany, the Japanese were brainwashed by their leaders to believe that other peoples were inferior, and perhaps even less than human. Less than one hundred years prior, many Japanese were living by the warrior code of Bushido, in which pride and honor plays a key role. Therefore, Japan’s need to repair its honor is not a thing to overlook; during the peace talks at the end of the Russo-Japan War, the Japanese felt like they were being treated as the defeated, as the Western powers strong-armed them into giving up much of what they had worked for. This insult grew with every condescending act by Western powers until World War II, when the Japanese finally had a chance to prove they were not a force to be looked down upon. The Japanese pride and fervor of serving the Emperor, who was said to be a direct descendant of the gods and therefore definitely worth dying for, can explain the reasons the Japanese became such ruthless warriors. War is always a horribly tragedy, but it is the opinion of this author that the acts committed by the Japanese during World War II do not reflect Japanese nature nor suggest that the Japanese are capable of committing the same acts again.

Modern Relations
Through this history of Japan’s military actions, it is understandable why the surrounding nations, especially Korea, have a hard time forgetting what had happened. For many years now the Chinese have been upset over Japanese textbooks in which the Japanese actions during World War II are downplayed and sometimes even portrayed in a positive light. Supporters of the Japanese point out that every major power in the history of the world has had the privilege to write its own history the way it wants it to be remembered; for the Japanese to be denied that right is insulting.
Just as every action has a reaction, most feelings of distrust or fear go both ways. By looking at history, the Koreans have learned to mistrust the Japanese, hating what they have done to Korean culture. Similarly, many Japanese have heard of this mistrust and fear what a Korean civilian might do to them if faced with one another alone in a dark alley. Everything heals with time, and Korean and Japanese youth are much more accepting of one another. With the absence of further conflicts in this area of Asia, one can only hope these cultures can forget the past and move towards a peaceful society, where various cultures can coexist without fear or mistrust. After all, all we know of history is what is recorded in books, and you can’t believe everything you read.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby Harisenbon » Tue 09.19.2006 3:13 am

Just as a side note, my wife was chased by a mob in China about 10 years ago when they found out she was Japanese.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby keatonatron » Tue 09.19.2006 4:39 am

Many Japanese think the Chinese and Koreans do that type of thing often, so the're afraid to visit those countries.
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RE: Germany is to Israel as Japan is to China??

Postby Oyaji » Tue 09.19.2006 5:51 am

I have nothing to add to the topic, but it does remind me of the time several years ago when I was traveling around Japan as the interpreter for a group of government officials from several Middle Eastern countries -- all of them Muslims.

We met with the mayor of one small town who had just returned from a visit to Israel, and he went on and on about how wonderful Israel is, and how rough their situation is surrounded by terrorists and all. His remarks had nothing to do with the purpose of our visit, and he obviously had completely forgotten who they were - he just wanted to impress them with his *worldliness*.

At first I did my job, and interpreted word for word, and at first they listened politely, but I could see they were getting a little uneasy. I began toning his words down as best as my professionalism would allow, and finally I looked at the mayor, and as pleasantly as I could, so as not to make a scene, said "Some of these men are from those countries surrounding Israel, and your words may not be having the effect you intend." He stood stunned for a second, and then a look of shocked realization came over his face. He hurriedly changed the subject, and I interpreted in a way to make the change seem as natural as possible.

I guess my point is, we can't change history, but it helps to be aware of history when we deal with others.
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