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日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どうして

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日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どうして

Postby CajunCoder » Sat 09.30.2006 4:12 pm

確かに、僕と、多い人もの日本語はとても苦手ですが、もっと日本語で語りにした方がいいではないか? 習おうとする言語はもちろん、使わなければなりません。

でも、「Practice Japanese」の部は、あまり投稿されていませんなぁ・・・ ペラペラの人にも。 どうしてかな? つまらない? 意味がない? 皆さんは、面白い事について語りたかったら、たいていに英語で語ると思います。 もちろん、それはそうですな、これは英語の、日本語につく掲示板ですから。 でも、本当に日本語を使いたいんです。 練習だけではなく、実際に使うこと。 

だいたいに、「Practice Japanese」や「日本語のみ」のフォーラムの部分は無視されてしまいます。どうやって、皆さんに、日本語を使って様々な事について語るように励ませるのかな?

で、みなさんはどう思いますか。

追伸:いつもどおり、「日本語の」間違いを指摘してください
Last edited by CajunCoder on Sat 09.30.2006 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby Mike Cash » Sat 09.30.2006 7:07 pm

I would venture a guess that it is because the ones most in need of the practice of posting in Japanese are the ones least able to do so and because the ones most able to do so are the ones least in need of it.
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby tanuki » Sat 09.30.2006 7:11 pm

I'm aware your post was aimed at the more skilled people, but I felt like responding, too.

The reason I don't use the "Practice Japanese" section is because my skills are (still?) too poor to express coherent ideas in Japanese. I don't want to start tenths of threads containing 「今日は大学に行きました」 and the like. It's frustrating to sit and think of things you can't even start to write and end up talking about how すごい your day was. That's also the reason I'm answering in English.

When I want to practice a particular grammar point, for example, I'd rather start a thread about it in the grammar section, get an explanation and then create some sentences and submit them for scrutiny.

That might be a stupid reasoning, though. As you said, you must use the language you are learning. I should post more often in the Practice Japanese section かなぁ・・・

Mike Cash wrote:
I would venture a guess that it is because the ones most in need of the practice of posting in Japanese are the ones least able to do so and because the ones most able to do so are the ones least in need of it.


I agree completely.
Last edited by tanuki on Sat 09.30.2006 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby LaughingMan » Sat 09.30.2006 10:23 pm

I know what you're saying, and I agree with the points of Mike Cash and tanuki. It seems that most of the people who post new threads in the Practice Japanese section are just writing logs of their days, speeches, and the like. I think a lot of the Japanese learners here have a weak vocabulary that they wouldn't be able to follow through writing such things as journal entries of how their day went.

There's the occasional thread that I really like in the Practice Japanese section, such as the "どんな音楽が好きですか" and the "物語を話しましょう" threads. What I like about these is that they aren't just logs or simply paragraphs on a random topic. With these threads, it allows the readers to practice their Japanese as well.

I propose that we create more of those kinds of "What ____ do you like?" threads in the Practice Japanese section or at least some sort of game that involves the interaction of readers; thus improving their Japanese. I think more people would respond that way if they only need to limit their scope of Japanese to the topic at hand, as opposed to writing about their day only to find that they aren't able to describe a great deal of it and, consequently, feel lost.

On another note, people who want to practice their Japanese should also head to the chat room. A decent amount of the time, there are people there whom you could practice with.
Last edited by LaughingMan on Sat 09.30.2006 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
「このノートに名前を書かれた人間は死ぬ」
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby ss » Sun 10.01.2006 2:18 am

This varies depending on who I am speaking to.

Before posting my “C B L” thread, I had been asking myself which forum was more suitable for me? “Translation Questions or Discussion” or “Practise Japanese” ?

A simple phrase when keep practising many many times, we will soon think that those are really simple. However, when you attempt to write a short essay, just a short one, you will realize it is no easy task, especially when you know people that are very good in Japanese or perhaps even the native Japanese are reading it. Are you presenting something that looks clear and precise with your expression, do people really understand what you’ve written, at least ! ?

You know, to me, learning Japanese now is exactly like a kindergarten kid learning A for Axe, B for Balloon, C for Coconut … kind of things, and slowly progressing to He is, She is, They are, We are and eventually to Present Tense, Past Tense, Future Tense and so on ......
Even in between level 4 to 3, I still find that there are tons of basic vocabulary, grammer and usage, sentence order, conjugation etc etc to learn. There is no ready-made job waiting for us. There are so many things ahead waiting to be learnt.

The thing I like best here is what it has enabled me to become. Japanese language is indeed not easy to master. The more I learn, the more I felt how much I don’t know, I feel inadequate, sometimes it’s so hard even to express a short sentence. (Some people might have same experiences when chatting in the chatroom.)
Thus, I am too totally agree with Mike Cash san : …… it is because the ones most in need of the practice of posting in Japanese are the ones least able to do so ......................

Like many things in life, there's no perfect solution. Practise makes perfect, that’s my thought.

Just an aside. The patience Coco-san displayed is something I often experience here. She always created a very supportive atmosphere. I felt I could turn to others for help without worrying about appearing an idiot.
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby paul_b » Sun 10.01.2006 5:08 am

I would just like to point out two points.
1. With the exception of the first post this thread is entirely in English.
2. I've been to quite a few Japanese forums for learning English and guess what language people write in there? Right, Japanese. :D
Last edited by paul_b on Sun 10.01.2006 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby panz » Sun 10.01.2006 5:47 am

tanuki wrote:
I'm aware your post was aimed at the more skilled people, but I felt like responding, too.

The reason I don't use the "Practice Japanese" section is because my skills are (still?) too poor to express coherent ideas in Japanese. I don't want to start tenths of threads containing 「今日は大学に行きました」 and the like. It's frustrating to sit and think of things you can't even start to write and end up talking about how すごい your day was. That's also the reason I'm answering in English.

When I want to practice a particular grammar point, for example, I'd rather start a thread about it in the grammar section, get an explanation and then create some sentences and submit them for scrutiny.

That might be a stupid reasoning, though. As you said, you must use the language you are learning. I should post more often in the Practice Japanese section かなぁ・・・

Mike Cash wrote:
I would venture a guess that it is because the ones most in need of the practice of posting in Japanese are the ones least able to do so and because the ones most able to do so are the ones least in need of it.


I agree completely.


I agree with you. ;)
i love this site ^_^
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby richvh » Sun 10.01.2006 8:46 am

私はこのフォーラムで「ゆきの物語」と言う小説をポストしています。それはだんだん長くなっています。残念ですが、最近返事があまりありません。

たいてい「物語を話しましょう」のようなスレッドもうすぐ止まってしまいます。それも残念ですね。わけが分からないけど、そんなスレッドでは私が最後のポスターになるようです。
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby Harisenbon » Sun 10.01.2006 8:48 am

僕は以前から日本語のメッセージをもっと書こうと思っていたけど、最近時間がなくて、TJPを読むと、本当に猛烈スピードで読んでいる。今でも、ほかのやる事があるから、出来るだけ早くよんで、返事して、待っている用事へ進みたい。

言うのは恥ずかしいけど、毎日毎日日本語のメールや報告を読んでるから、TJPを読むと、日本語のメッセージを読むのが面倒だと思っちゃって、日本語のメッセージをスキップしちゃう。

その上、前私が日本語で書いたメッセージに対する返事一つももらってないから、英語のほうがいいんじゃないって考えてきました。
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby CajunCoder » Thu 10.05.2006 3:36 pm

paul_b wrote:
2. I've been to quite a few Japanese forums for learning English and guess what language people write in there? Right, Japanese. :D


そんな掲示板が探していたけど、いいのは見つかれなかった。 教えてくれませんか。


Harisenbon wrote:
言うのは恥ずかしいけど、毎日毎日日本語のメールや報告を読んでるから、TJPを読むと、日本語のメッセージを読むのが面倒だと思っちゃって、日本語のメッセージをスキップしちゃう。

その上、前私が日本語で書いたメッセージに対する返事一つももらってないから、英語のほうがいいんじゃないって考えてきました。


えっ? 他の、日本語の苦手人はその言い訳があるけど、ハリセンボンさんはかなりペラペラでしょう? 


ん、とにかく。 僕はずっと、「日本語で日本語を練習しましょう」っていう掲示板を作ろうと考えてきたけど、 I am not confident that it would go well. Based on my past attempts, I'm not very good at running a forum, or keeping it active. それから、興味がある人はいない、たぶん。
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby Mike Cash » Thu 10.05.2006 4:14 pm

CajunCoder wrote:



Harisenbon wrote:
言うのは恥ずかしいけど、毎日毎日日本語のメールや報告を読んでるから、TJPを読むと、日本語のメッセージを読むのが面倒だと思っちゃって、日本語のメッセージをスキップしちゃう。

その上、前私が日本語で書いたメッセージに対する返事一つももらってないから、英語のほうがいいんじゃないって考えてきました。


えっ? 他の、日本語の苦手人はその言い訳があるけど、ハリセンボンさんはかなりペラペラでしょう? 


I'm not entirely a 苦手な人 at reading them, but I by-and-large ignore them as well. They tend either to be awkward, hard-to-decipher beginner efforts or in-depth microsurgical dissections of some boringly obscure Japanese grammar point. Neither appeals to me.
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby Chico » Thu 10.12.2006 10:15 am

SS wrote:The more I learn, the more I felt how much I don’t know, I feel inadequate, sometimes it’s so hard even to express a short sentence. (Some people might have same experiences when chatting in the chatroom.)
これは、私が初めて英語でEnglish speakerとチャットをした時に感じたことと全く同じです。
This is exactly the same as what I felt when I first chatted with an English speaker.

私は、イギリスに行く前にペンパルを作りました。何故なら、英語でチャットすることで、英語を練習したかったからです。でも、私はほとんど何も言えませんでした。
I made a pen pal before going to UK, because I wanted to practice my English by chatting with him in English, but I could hardly say anything.

何かを言おうとする度に、私は全ての言葉を辞書で引く必要がありました。
Everytime I tried to say something, I needed to look up every words.

また、ひとつの文章を作るのに、本当に長い時間がかかりました。そして、それは私をぎこちなく感じさせました。
Also, it took really long time to make a sentence, which made me feel awkward.

私は自分は本当に馬鹿だと思いました。
私は自分の感じていることすら伝えられない。
私のボキャブラリーはお粗末すぎる。
私の文法はめちゃくちゃだ。
I felt I'm such an idiot.
I cant even tell what I feel. My vocabulary is too poor. My grammer is messed up.


私は英語でチャットするのが嫌だったけれど、2、3ヶ月はできるだけ英語で会話しようとしました。
I didnt like chatting in English, but I tried to have as many conversations in English as I could for a few months.

このことが、私がイギリスに行った後で役に立つとは思わなかったのですが、実際に、本当に役に立ちました。
I didn't think this could help me after going to the UK, but this actually was a big help.

もしあなたが自分の日本語が下手すぎると思っているとしても、できるだけ日本語で話そうとする姿勢が本当に重要なのですよ。

あれ、話がずれちゃったかな?
Last edited by Chico on Thu 10.12.2006 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
I\'m Japanese. I\'m trying to help Japanese learners. Feel free to ask me! However, my English might not be good enough. Any corrections to my English are appreciated!
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby RpgN » Thu 10.12.2006 10:34 am

I feel that I'm not good enough and that I might turn people off who are much better then me. I still need a bit more practise before talking in Japanese. But I found that reading in Japanese is a big help! It will improve your Japanese alot faster :)
Last edited by RpgN on Thu 10.12.2006 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
So, do you think I can learn Japanese?
私は日本語を習うことができると思いますか?
これは本当に難しいですね?だから今は頑張っている! 楽しいです!
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RE: 日本語の勉強のための掲示板なら、どう

Postby AJBryant » Thu 10.12.2006 12:08 pm

I agree with Mike's last post.

But there's another thing. The posts in that section tend to be LONG. On the line of seeveral whole paragraphs. I don't mind taking the time to correct a handful of sentences, or explain grammar/vocab related to same; but I tend to draw the line at whole passages of text. For me at least, that just smacks of work (and takes time away from me *doing* my work), and there are people willing to do it -- so I'm off the hook there.

Tony
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