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about hiragana

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about hiragana

Postby bigwillie450 » Mon 07.11.2005 3:21 pm

ok, i just completed the hiragana lessons and noticed that in the ten-ten section, where it changes S to Z and T to D, that their I and U prounciations are prounced the same, but written with different hiragana http://www.thejapanesepage.com/hiraganacharts.htm . I was wondering if it was a misprint or if it is like that for a reason, and if so, what?

thx in advance.
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RE: about hiragana

Postby kydancer0123 » Mon 07.11.2005 3:35 pm

Yeah, I noticed that too, but I don't think it's a typo. I just went along with it. If you need anything explained to you, it would be a good idea to ask Clay via Personal Message. Perhaps because their pronunciations are close is the reason. Many people say that "su" and "tsu" are pronounced the same, but this is a misnomer. When pronouncing "tsu", you have to start out with saying "t", and follow through with "su". For extra help, consult the sound files, they help alot! I hope I helped! Good Luck!;)
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RE: about hiragana

Postby MenomaMinx » Mon 07.11.2005 7:38 pm

answered this for you in shoutbox already

"MenomaMinx on July 11 2005 - 15:15:01
will,you mean ず and づ, right? they are pronounced the same when altered like that.a long time ago, they used to be pronounced differently, but not anymore;yet, the original spelling still remains."
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RE: about hiragana

Postby bigwillie450 » Mon 07.11.2005 8:40 pm

ok, thank you very much and Im sorry i made you type that twice
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RE: about hiragana

Postby Mukade » Mon 07.11.2005 10:43 pm

Technically, ず should be pronounced zu, whereas づ should be pronounced dzu. Practically, however, this differentiation began to fade out of standard usage during the Showa period, and they both tend to be pronounced zu these days.

Because it hasn't been that long since it started to fade, though, you'll still hear some older Japanese pronouncing づ as dzu. There are some dialects, too, that still use the dzu pronounciation - Osaka dialect being the most common.

I remember being scolded by a Japanese teacher once for constantly pronouncing it as dzu. She told me that if I pronounced it that way I would either sound like a hick or like someone from Osaka (she was from Tokyo). Since I did my study abroad in Osaka, this must have been where I picked up the habit.

And since Osaka is clearly a superior city to Tokyo, I will continue to unabashedly pronounce it dzu.;)
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