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Netiquettes

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Netiquettes

Postby kukkii » Fri 11.24.2006 7:14 pm

I think netiquettes applies to everybody when typing something online, whether it's on a forum or creating a site other than a blog.
Netiquettes is a term that's simply etiquettes for online usage.
Nowadays online, the use of informal talk on websites other than blogs are so common that it won't be a surprise to run into one.
To me, that's a no-no. Why?

When creating a web site, posting at forum, and/or other areas where you don't socialize with friends you know outside of the online world, you don't know you're reader, therefore you must use formal talk.
Think of those areas that needs formal talk as an essay for a subject that's due tomorrow.
I don't think you'll hand in your Health teacher a report similar to this:

Yo, dawg! Imma gonna talk abt drugz in mah report 2dai kidd. Drugz r so frikin baddd 4 u. Duh. It kan make u lyke sik n shit. 1 out of billionz of ppl takes drugz n stuff, but aye, itz bad 4 u!! kan make u die!! Duh!!! Kan make u sik!! Duh!!! Dah cops kan take u n u kan go 2 jail kidd!!! Duh!! Soo point made: don't eva do drugz yo!! Duh!!!!


Hahaha, take a good laugh at that.
You'll be lucky if you got a D- for that report.
It's okay if your chatting amongst your friends on AIM and that, but anywhere else, use appropriate grammar and spelling please.
Even if it kills you to use MS Word for that, than use it.
A lot of people online while pick and dislike you for inappropriate grammar and spelling, just like how people outside the internet picks on your for your actions and appearance.
Plus, talking informal talk online gives away that professional feeling -- this applies to creating websites other than blogs too.
Another thing is to never do spam, you can get your account suspended or even banned.

Now, let's edit the report you handed in to your teacher to make it acceptable.

Throughout the US, knowledge of drugs and its effects are spread from state to state that it's common for a high school student to know the basic facts of it. Howver, many people ignores the results of abusing drugs, even knowing what it can do to a person. Abusing drugs can take its toll to as for as death, cancer, asthma, lung problems, etc. Police involvement can make a drug addict thrown in jail if caught using drugs as well.


You'd probably get a B+ or higher for that report, since all that information just pouring out of my head.

Let's review:
- Never spam, it can lead into your account suspended, or even worse banned.
- Use appropriate grammar, spelling, language, and formal talk when you're not talking to your friends, on AIM/MSN/chatboard, or on a blog.
- Never double- or triple-post, just edit your previous post, and include in what you have to say. On the shout boards, excuse yourself when creating a second post, since you cannot edit your previous shout.
- Don't write ALL IN CAPS, because it looks LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING!
- Put informative titles to your threads (not "help!", "please help!", "translation plz" or things like that)

If you follow those rules, I'm sure you're going to not get picked at online just for simple, small things. X3
Also, thank you Tanuki for some contributions towards this thread! :3
Last edited by kukkii on Fri 11.24.2006 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby tanuki » Fri 11.24.2006 7:48 pm

Great. I would just add:

- Don't write ALL IN CAPS, because it looks LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING!
- Put informative titles to your threads (not "help!", "please help!", "translation plz" or things like that)

Now all we need is everyone reading and following the rules.
...well, dreaming is for free. :)
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby kukkii » Fri 11.24.2006 9:34 pm

Thanks so much!
I'll add that to my previous post, and credit you! =3
Hahaha, I wish everybody will read this, but, like in "Full Metal Alchemist"...
"Dreams are meant for fantasy. If it came true, then it was never a dream to begin with."
I don't know the exact quote, but it's similar to the above. ^^;
It was said in the scene were Ed lost his arms and legs when a kid stole them, somewhere in the beginning season of the anime and manga series.
Last edited by kukkii on Fri 11.24.2006 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby Kagemaru » Fri 11.24.2006 10:45 pm

I wholeheartedly agree.

I suppose all the above would only apply to people that have the ability to begin with to adhere to netiquette.

From what I have seen the worst offenders seem to be:

1. Juveniles whom believe it's cool to write street style(If that is the coined term)
2. Inability to write correctly anyway.

Should I be holding my breath?
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby Dehitay » Fri 11.24.2006 11:57 pm

Kagemaru wrote:
Should I be holding my breath?


only if you want to end your suffering >=P
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby Infidel » Sat 11.25.2006 12:53 am

[wiki=Forum_Etiquette]Forum Ettiquite[/wiki]
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby arbalest71 » Sat 11.25.2006 10:18 am

kukkii wrote:
Now, let's edit the report you handed in to your teacher to make it acceptable.

Throughout the US, knowledge of drugs and its effects are spread from state to state that it's common for a high school student to know the basic facts of it. Howver, many people ignores the results of abusing drugs, even knowing what it can do to a person. Abusing drugs can take its toll to as for as death, cancer, asthma, lung problems, etc. Police involvement can make a drug addict thrown in jail if caught using drugs as well.


You'd probably get a B+ or higher for that report, since all that information just pouring out of my head.



If I were your instructor, at any level that actually required writing, I would fail you for that, or at least ask you to begin again or be failed (maybe you would get that chance if it were a junior high school class). It is not more acceptable than your initial example, and perhaps less. I recognize (please, let this be the case) that English is not your native language, and I compliment you on the degree to which you have learned to write it. Great- English is a terribly difficult language, so much so that even our President has been known to stumble occasionally.

The thing is that very few respectable institutions in the West would fail to fail you for that even if your grammar were perfect- that's not a B+, it's not even a good clean F. It's the sort of pap that 4th graders pick up from public service announcements between cartoons, devoid of thought or judgement. It's a passage from the paper that makes your academic advisor finally recommend that you learn a trade. I don't care how much lipstick you put on that pig, I'm not kissing it.

You might accuse me of picking nits here- after all, should postings to a message board be compared to academic writing? Well, I didn't decide on that metric- you did. I'd suggest that if everyone followed your model in all postings to all internet forums, there would be little point in posting anything to the internet.

In the end, if you write something, and disseminate it, it ought to have _some_ point. If that point is, basically, the conventional wisdom, it should either be a response to an assault on such or contain a novel justification. At the very least I expect a homily.

kukkii wrote:
Let's review:
- Never spam, it can lead into your account suspended, or even worse banned.
- Use appropriate grammar, spelling, language, and formal talk when you're not talking to your friends, on AIM/MSN/chatboard, or on a blog.
- Never double- or triple-post, just edit your previous post, and include in what you have to say. On the shout boards, excuse yourself when creating a second post, since you cannot edit your previous shout.
- Don't write ALL IN CAPS, because it looks LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING!
- Put informative titles to your threads (not "help!", "please help!", "translation plz" or things like that)


Your first point is true, though we must expand the technical definition of spam (given the narrow definition it is not possible to spam outside of usenet) for it to have the application you desire. But, does your statement serve a purpose? Spamming, broadly construed, is such an odious behavior that it is hard to wind up doing it accidentally in the year 2006. Do you think that spammers will suddenly see the light on seeing your post? Do you think a lot of spammers will read it? Any? They're too busy spamming.

Your second point betrays a lack of understanding of actual English usage (np there- as I said, English is terrible). It is as if I went onto a Japanese board and chastised its users for speaking in incomplete sentences. It is not at all uncommon for native speakers to intentionally use very informal English to underscore a point- sometimes in the middle of a sentence that is otherwise framed in very formal terms.

Third point, well, yeah... can't say I've never done it, but... yeah. Threading would solve this- maybe I should build a threaded message board app sometime. Then again, someone must have already done so.

Fourth and fifth points GO WITHOUT SAYING, or at least ought to.

I'll add a sixth- learn how to quote and trim, and avoid top-posting. Standards for all of this evolved well before the web existed. They _evolved_... that is to say that people found them to work well.

kukkii wrote:
If you follow those rules, I'm sure you're going to not get picked at online just for simple, small things. X3


Nonsense. I don't care what you do (short of not posting), people will "pick at you online". Maybe if you restrict yourself to the statements made in between Saturday morning cartoons you can dodge it for a while. But there is no "wa" online, even between Japanese (in fact, some of the rudest things I've ever seen said online- saying a lot- were said by Japanese, to Japanese- I guess the anonymity can be liberating).

I have to wonder though- if you only post things that absolutely everyone agrees on, why bother? I have certain views, and I'm willing to argue them. I'd like to see everyone else argue them on an intellectual level, and I wish I were always wise enough not to lose my temper and respond in kind to those who can't do that. I also want a pony.

I also cannot stand writing that lacks punctuation.
Last edited by arbalest71 on Sat 11.25.2006 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby Oyaji » Sat 11.25.2006 10:31 am

Arbelest71 - I didn't read your entire post, but what I did read seems to be on the mark, and well deserved. I thought I would just point out that the original poster is a very energetic 13 year old - a fact you might consider when deciding how to expend your energy. ;)
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby paul_b » Sat 11.25.2006 10:40 am

"I think netiquettes applies to everybody when typing something online, whether it's on a forum or creating a site other than a blog."

netiquette singular, and why exclude blogs?

"Netiquettes is a term that's simply etiquettes for online usage."

Netiquette is a term that simply means etiquette for online communities.

"Nowadays online, the use of informal talk on websites other than blogs are so common that it won't be a surprise to run into one."

Nowadays the use of informal language on websites is so common that it is no surprise to run into it.

Again, why exclude blogs?

"To me, that's a no-no. Why?

When creating a web site, posting at forum, and/or other areas where you don't socialize with friends you know outside of the online world, you don't know you're reader, therefore you must use formal talk."

To me, that's a no-no.

Why? Because when creating a web site, posting in a forum etc. you are interacting with people you don't know know outside of the online world therefore you must use formal talk.


Run on sentence. Also the conclusion reached is not logically supported by the argument.

"Think of those areas that needs formal talk as an essay for a subject that's due tomorrow.
I don't think you'll hand in your Health teacher a report similar to this: "

Think of text in those areas that require formal talk as if it is an essay for a subject that's due tomorrow.
I don't think that you'd hand a report like the following to your Health teacher:


"You'll be lucky if you got a D- for that report."

You'd be lucky if ...

"It's okay if your chatting amongst your friends on AIM and that, but anywhere else, use appropriate grammar and spelling please."

It's okay if you're chatting amongst your friends on AIM and such, but anywhere else, please use appropriate grammar and spelling.

"Even if it kills you to use MS Word for that, than use it."

Meaning unclear, possibly ...

Even if you hate using MS Word for that, then use it.

"A lot of people online while pick and dislike you for inappropriate grammar and spelling, just like how people outside the internet picks on your for your actions and appearance. "

A lot of people will pick on you and dislike you for inappropriate grammar and spelling, just like how people outside the internet will pick on your for your actions and appearance.

"Plus, talking informal talk online gives away that professional feeling -- this applies to creating websites other than blogs too. "

Plus, talking informally online causes you to lose that professional feel -- this also applies to creating websites.

Again with the blog obsession.

"Another thing is to never do spam, you can get your account suspended or even banned."

Another thing is to never to spam, you can get your account suspended or even be banned.

"Now, let's edit the report you handed in to your teacher to make it acceptable."

Instead I've edited your post. You now have official permission to laugh in my face every time I type "it's" instead of "its" (my personal weak point is apostrophes - I know where they go but my fingers don't).

"You'd probably get a B+ or higher for that report, since all that information just pouring out of my head."

You'd probably get a B+ or higher for that report, since all that information just pouring out of my head.

Using information pouring out of somebody elses head is (apart from being キモい) plagiarism.

"Let's review:
- Never spam, it can lead into your account suspended, or even worse banned."

- Never spam, it can lead to your account being suspended, or even worse to you being banned.

"- Use appropriate grammar, spelling, language, and formal talk when you're not talking to your friends, on AIM/MSN/chatboard, or on a blog."

- Use appropriate grammar, spelling, language, and formality when in a public community.

"- Never double- or triple-post, just edit your previous post, and include in what you have to say. On the shout boards, excuse yourself when creating a second post, since you cannot edit your previous shout. "

- Never double- or triple-post, just edit your previous post to include what you have to say. On the shout boards where you can not edit your previous shout excuse yourself when creating a second post.

"If you follow those rules, I'm sure you're going to not get picked at online just for simple, small things. X3"

If you follow those rules, I'm sure you will not get picked at online over trivial matters. X3
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby arbalest71 » Sat 11.25.2006 11:31 am

Oyaji wrote:
Arbelest71 - I didn't read your entire post, but what I did read seems to be on the mark, and well deserved. I thought I would just point out that the original poster is a very energetic 13 year old - a fact you might consider when deciding how to expend your energy. ;)


Actually, I'd rather waste my time writing a post for a 13 year old than for a 33 year old. OTOH, if said 13 year old is from an English speaking country, it makes me wonder... within the last year I have recommended (i.e. hired) 2 people for positions that paid over 75k a year, and in both cases my final decision was, honestly, influenced by their facility with language- my language as a matter of fact ;).

I'm not all that interested in correct grammar when interviewing, except for native speakers. Way too many non-native speakers in my field for me to be concerned about that- but I am interested in making sure that the prospects will be able to communicate ideas- and I also happen to think that their ability to think on their feet and argue either side of an argument is relevant even when hiring for a tech position.

When it comes to native speakers, I ask them some desultory programming questions, but I generally know who I'm going to hire based on how they speak (and, coming from a "region" myself I make allowances for dialect). People who speak their native language really well are almost always the best prospects.

So, if you're 13, learn it- but don't be hidebound. I'd argue with a lot of Paul_b's assessments as well... but I wouldn't consider them _wrong_.

(EDIT: I left this implied, but on reflection, I should make it explcit. I have yet to meet a CS grad student from India who did not speak English remarkably well. If you want to compete, best to speak better English than recent immigrants.)
Last edited by arbalest71 on Sat 11.25.2006 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby tanuki » Sat 11.25.2006 6:01 pm

Why comment on the OP's English all of a sudden? (Especially if she's not a native speaker; I don't know if she is.) And with that long rant! I really don't see the point.

If this happened to me, I'd be pretty pissed off. Unless my English were so bad to the point of not being understandable (or of being funny :)) , I don't want people nit-picking in a forum for learning Japanese.

But, well, it didn't happen to me.
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby punkgrl326 » Sat 11.25.2006 6:51 pm

I think it's alright to be informal on forums as long as you remember not to take it too far. Remember, it's a forum, not a classroom ;)
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby kohyin » Sat 11.25.2006 10:10 pm

I think it is hard to be ourselves when there is a lot of room to reconstruct the images of ourselves and fake them. It is like we have big thick masks on our faces and nobody would recognize us. So, guess what, we end up misbehaving...
I thought it was very impolite and very inpersonal that people have different masks on when the conversations are supposed to be very sincere (how could one be sincere when they pretend not to be him/her-self?). But, you know, I now use a mask myself (I contemplated a bit on this, I still don't like it , but I would blend a bit better with a mask). I'll try to do my best to be myself and be sincere while keeping myself this mask... Woud you believe that?
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby Ozymandias » Sat 11.25.2006 11:12 pm

kukkii wrote:
- Don't write ALL IN CAPS, because it looks LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING!


Indeed. I find it interesting that you do that in your own posts, yet it is listed by you here.
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RE: Netiquettes

Postby keatonatron » Sun 11.26.2006 12:49 am

Ozymandias wrote:
kukkii wrote:
- Don't write ALL IN CAPS, because it looks LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING!


Indeed. I find it interesting that you do that in your own posts


You mean "every post":

"UNDER A ROCK!!! WOOHOO!!!"

:D
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