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てあんテ゛ィ?

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てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Shibakoen » Sun 07.17.2005 7:36 pm

As everyone probably knows, I've been watching Samurai Champloo lately and there's this phrase that the secret police agent says a bunch of times. I think it's てあんディ. The English subtitles say "Blow me down!" but I'm wondering if there's a better translation.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Harisenbon » Sun 07.17.2005 10:50 pm

It's a phase used by Edo period people to show their strength. It doesn't really have a set meaning, but is very similar to だぜ in modern speach.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Shibakoen » Mon 07.18.2005 7:06 pm

Did I write it correctly? I wasn't sure since the sound "di" isn't a real kana. I do know that sometimes "ri" sounds like "di" (I swear 便利 sounds like bendi half the time) so I thought that might be the case this time.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby CviCvraeVtMoriar » Mon 07.18.2005 8:05 pm

EDIT:

I shouldn't respond until I have a more than tenuous grip on what is actually being asked...
Last edited by CviCvraeVtMoriar on Tue 07.19.2005 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ni di me non pvlchrvm paterentvr, omnia bona agerem. Dixit: Cvr se deos liqvisse? Qvid se faceret? Di se fecissent foediorem qvam qvem canis ipse videre posset. Qvaeram a qvovis, vel diabolo, vt bellvs a se fiam modo ne malam vitam vivam. Dico, si aliter egissent, fvtvrvm fvisse vt bene viverem. - me
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Mukade » Mon 07.18.2005 10:21 pm

Shibakoen wrote:
Did I write it correctly? I wasn't sure since the sound "di" isn't a real kana. I do know that sometimes "ri" sounds like "di" (I swear 便利 sounds like bendi half the time) so I thought that might be the case this time.


Well, the sound "di" (pronounced "dee") is transliterated into katakana as you wrote it:
ディ

Some examples of words that use this combination:
キャンディ = candy
ディーゼル = diesel
ディーラー = (card game) dealer
ディスク = (computer) disk

If the example you've given here of てあんでぃ is, indeed, an Edo-period phrase, then it's probably not going to be written this way. Perhaps てあんじ、てあんぢ or てあんり. I've never heard of this phrase, so I'm not sure.
Last edited by Mukade on Mon 07.18.2005 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby netarou » Mon 07.18.2005 10:29 pm

I think the phrase would be てやんでえ, though I've never watched Samurai Champloo.

てやんでえ(感動詞)[←何言ってやがるんでえ]不快・不満・不利な状況(ジョウキョウ)にあるときに、少し居直(イナオ)りぎみに発することば。
−三省堂国語辞典第三版より

例:
「そりゃおめぇさんがわりぃんじゃねぇかい?」
「てやんでえ!こちとらわりぃことは何一つしちゃいねぇよ!」

I'd also like to mention some kana.
"di" is written as でぃ ディ.
"discovery" is ディスカバリー.
"ti" is ティ, so, English word "tea" is written as ティー.
りゅ/リュ and デュ are same pronounciation.
デュ is only used to write foreign words such as "producer" プロデューサー, "duplicate" デュプリケイト, "Duverger" デュヴェルジェ and so on.
"va" "vi" "vu" "ve" "vo" are ヴァ ヴィ ヴ ヴェ ヴォ.
"violin", "viola", "vegetable" and "voice" would be ヴァイオリン, ヴィオラ, ヴェジタブル and ヴォイス, but ベジタブル and ボイス are commoner.
English word "to" and "do" is written as トゥ and ドゥ.
So, "to-do list" is トゥドゥリスト.
"tsa" "tsi" "tse" "tso" are ツァ ツィ ツェ ツォ.
おとっつぁん (おとうさん) and カンツォーネ (canzone) for example.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby coco » Tue 07.19.2005 12:21 am

laorenz wrote:
I think the phrase would be てやんでえ


laorenzさんのおっしゃるとおり、私もその言葉は、「(何言っ)てやんでえ」ではないかと思います。「え」の発音は曖昧(あいまい)なので、音の赴Lをすれば
「てやんでぇ」と「てやんでぃ」の中間音かもしれません。

もし、落語がお好きな方ならば 江戸落語の中で
この言葉(=てやんでぇ)を耳にするでしょう。

下町出身ということを前面に出している北野武も
「ビートたけし」としては「〜てやんでえ」を
頻繁(ひんぱん)に使っていました。
立川談志は 今でも使っていますね、その言葉。

sa-sanもし補足があれば、宜しく
試しにわかるとこだけ訳してみました。混乱させたら失礼

As laorenz says I also think that phrase is "てやんでえ".
last "え"sound might be pronounced between 「ぇ」and 「ぃ」.
If you like RAKUGO you will notice that phrase.

KIANO takeshi used to use it as he is a 「ビートたけし」.

おそまつでしたぁ ;)
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Harisenbon » Tue 07.19.2005 1:26 am

CoCoさん、うまいなぁ!

よく出来たよ!
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Shibakoen » Tue 07.19.2005 10:22 am

My first name is Andy, so in approximating that into Japanese is how I learned from my Japanese teacher about making the ディ。 It could be a 'ya' there instead of an 'a', but it definitely sounds like a 'di' at the end. I was wondering if there used to be an actual kana for this sound since there used to be a "wi" and a "we". Just in case your curious if any of those are used now, look at a can of Ebisu beer.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby CviCvraeVtMoriar » Tue 07.19.2005 6:22 pm

I have edited this because Harisenbon thought it was annoying...

:p
Last edited by CviCvraeVtMoriar on Tue 07.19.2005 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ni di me non pvlchrvm paterentvr, omnia bona agerem. Dixit: Cvr se deos liqvisse? Qvid se faceret? Di se fecissent foediorem qvam qvem canis ipse videre posset. Qvaeram a qvovis, vel diabolo, vt bellvs a se fiam modo ne malam vitam vivam. Dico, si aliter egissent, fvtvrvm fvisse vt bene viverem. - me
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Shibakoen » Tue 07.19.2005 6:44 pm

It could very well be that the whole phrase is written in katakana, I just used katakana for the part that I was most unsure about (kinda to italisize). The word was not written down, I'm just writing what I heard which I swear was the sound 'teandi'. For the fact that I heard 'di' I was confused and wanted clarification since for the most part the sound is associated with loan words and has no kana of its own. Since Harisenbon seemed to know the phrase and said that it was a very old one, but did not correct the way I wrote it, I was just wondering if the sounds were accurate as I wrote them. I am already well aware of the various kana in use at present, I just also know that long ago there were some different, obsolete kana. Thus I thought that since the phrase was old, maybe it used an obscure, obsolete kana or maybe it was just an odd pronunciation of the kana "ri" since I know that it sounds very different depending on the word in use.

Basically, I want to know more about this word "teandi" because the translation "blow me down" seems quite bogus. However, Harisenbon's explanation does not satisfy my curiosity (it really impressed me that he'd heard of it, though) because I still want to know more about the phrase like who would specifically use it and maybe a concrete example of a situation as well as its etimology. I know I'm asking too much, but I'm really curious. Is it like used like when guys in the Army grunt their affirmation/ understanding? I really just don't know how to use the modern phrase "daze", either. I never noticed it. As Harisenbon knows, I'm very curious about the predicate endings like sa, wa, no, ze, etc and it just seems that none of my teachers or friends can ever explain it well enough.
Last edited by Shibakoen on Tue 07.19.2005 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Harisenbon » Tue 07.19.2005 8:38 pm

Cvi> Please make that graphic smaller, it makes the post a pain to read. danke

だぜ is just the だ ending with ぜ added on to it for emphasis. Just like you'd add on ぞ わ の, etc.

行くぜ! Let's rock this
暑いぜ! Damn, it's hot

It's just an old form of the word.
And don't think too highly of me, my wife taught me that word. ;)
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Mukade » Tue 07.19.2005 9:49 pm

Harisenbon wrote:
だぜ is just the だ ending with ぜ added on to it for emphasis. Just like you'd add on ぞ わ の, etc.

行くぜ! Let's rock this
暑いぜ! Damn, it's hot


The thing is, ぜ and ぞ have a nuance of transferring information that the other party doesn't know. So, your examples would probably be better translated as:

行くぜ! (I'm warning you that I'm) going!
暑いぜ! (I'm warning you that it's) hot!

The Osaka-dialect version of this is (や)で:
行くで!
暑いやで!

I can't resist spreading the gospel of Kansai-ben. :)
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby Harisenbon » Tue 07.19.2005 10:05 pm

oooh I never noticed that, but you're completely right.
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RE: てあんテ゛ィ?

Postby CviCvraeVtMoriar » Tue 07.19.2005 11:43 pm

I don't really know why I respond to questions like these, when I've very very little expertise apropos Japanese... It probably has something to do with my being wont to know answers to abstruse questions with regards to other languages; as a result, although I should be sucky at them, notwithstanding, it is my mos to respond to questions regarding all languages - whether I have the answers or not.

You would be well advised to hold my responses at naught and completely disregard them in the future... :|
Last edited by CviCvraeVtMoriar on Wed 07.20.2005 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_____________________________________
Ni di me non pvlchrvm paterentvr, omnia bona agerem. Dixit: Cvr se deos liqvisse? Qvid se faceret? Di se fecissent foediorem qvam qvem canis ipse videre posset. Qvaeram a qvovis, vel diabolo, vt bellvs a se fiam modo ne malam vitam vivam. Dico, si aliter egissent, fvtvrvm fvisse vt bene viverem. - me
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