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by **CviCvraeVtMoriar** » Wed 07.20.2005 12:30 am

Does anyone here know of any extraordinarily advanced Japanese reference grammars on par with Gildersleeve's Latin Grammar, Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar, and Herbert Weir Smyth's Greek Grammar that are yet written in English?

You can download Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar and Herbert Weir Smyth's Greek Grammar to get an idea of how "in-depth" I want my Japanese grammar to be.

Know that Gildersleeve's is an even more tedious, tortuous, difficult, and detailed treatise than Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar, and that Herbert Weir Smyth's Greek Grammar cloys of fact far more than any.

http://www.textkit.com/learn/ID/109/author_id/42/ Download Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar

http://www.textkit.com/learn/ID/142/author_id/63/ Download Herbert Weir Smyth's Greek Grammar

Gildersleeve's is unavailable at this time.

by **Harisenbon** » Wed 07.20.2005 12:43 am

"A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar" is I think the current defacto standard for really good high level grammar points. The basic version came out 20 years ago, the intermediate 10 years ago, so I'm hoping that advanced comes out sometimes soonish.

If you do find a really good advanced grammar book, please tell me. I'm using a hodgpodge of Unicom books for the 日本語迫ﾍ試験一級 they're good, but nearly as comprensive as I would like. Nor are they set up in any logical dictionary like order.

by **CviCvraeVtMoriar** » Wed 07.20.2005 12:49 am

Thanks for the info, Harisenbon. I don't know what this forum would do without your expertise.

The salient and saliently irritating paucity of advanced Japanese grammars is truly disconcerting. Every language that I have looked into has had its fair share of advanced, and well-structured grammars; but with Japanese, it is as though there were no well-trained Japanese scholars in this world, people with a truly firm and tenacious grasp upon the mechanics of the language, who should be able to write a perspicuous, yet challenging and fully detailed Japanese grammar. Bah!

by **Harisenbon** » Wed 07.20.2005 1:48 am

There are a lot of those people. However, they are all Japanese, and write for Japanese readers. I think more than any other people, the Japanese are facinated by their own language. The number of books to be had that describe the intricacies of Japanese, as well as how to improve your own Japanese is astounding. However, they're all written in Japanese, aimed towards Japanese readers.

by **MenomaMinx** » Wed 07.20.2005 2:07 am

That book Harisenbon mentioned is actually 2 vols. and their excellent -- I have them :-)

I saw something claiming to be similar recently at Barnes & Noble's. I think it was just called "Japanese grammar" and it was a short book about the thickness of the average oversized phonebook. I didn't like the layout, as it was very dense, but I remember it sold for around $50 U.S. and I can try to remember to write down the ISBN number for you next time I go if you're interested :-)