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Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたらす

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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby chchan45 » Sun 12.03.2006 1:04 pm

SS san,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I finally got home last night after 2 weeks away.

Thank you for your research. This seems to clarify a few things, but unfortunately this also means that the original passage has to be rewritten. :(

I strongly suggest that we sort it out before our next chat with coco san.

Also, did you say that you have difficulties finding the most up to date version of the text? Have you managed to do it now, and if so could you please provide me with a link?

I hope that you have done well at your JLPT today. I look forward to meet you on the chat room at some point. Take care.

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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby ss » Sun 12.03.2006 10:54 pm

Hey Chchan-san, not a problem at all and welcome back !

>>I strongly suggest that we sort it out before our next chat with coco san.

I've emailed the latest version to you.

Btw, no JP class for me this coming Sunday, probably you can arrange schedule to meet up at your convenient time, I'll check wiki ;)

Thank you. I found the test much easier than I actually thought, I'm confident I will score xxxx (marks which I expected) B)

See ya!
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby chchan45 » Mon 12.04.2006 8:02 pm

SS san,

For the chat, how about 07:30 your time on Sunday (it would be 23:30 my time)? Am I correct to think that this is just a chat between us to sort out the document and hence coco san does not need to participate in it?

As for the other points, I have replied to you by PM so please kindly check your mail box.

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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby ss » Tue 12.05.2006 5:06 am

Sunday 10-12-06 07:30 SST - On !
Last edited by ss on Tue 12.05.2006 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby chchan45 » Tue 12.05.2006 8:21 pm

SS san,

I have updated the Chatroom schedule wiki with the correct time and title.

Please note that I have chosen my words carefully at my last post. :D

I did not suggest coco is persona non grata at the chatroom and she is certainly welcome to join us. I just wanted to make sure that her participation is not essential on this occasion. However, I would also like to warn any potential participants that a discussion about the finer points of 言葉遣い in Chinese may be very boring.

Chchan45
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby ss » Tue 12.05.2006 9:28 pm

Please note that I have chosen my words carefully at my last post. :D

Does it appy to this >> However, I would also like to warn any potential participants that a discussion about the finer points of 言葉遣い in Chinese may be very boring.

boring, not enough, + a very and a bold (>.<)""

Cuáles prefiere usted, éstos :@ :@ :@ o aquéllos P) P) P) ? ((Just kidding) :D

Anyway, thank you for being honest.
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby coco » Fri 12.08.2006 10:30 pm

zenさんの作ってくださったものを利用して、時間の最終確認をしましょう。
[utc]Saturday 2006/12/9 23:30[/utc] でよろしくお願いします。
(zenさん。別ウインドウで開くようにしてくれて、ありがとう。 :) )
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby ss » Sat 12.09.2006 12:08 am

ここさん、これ(not fixed yet)を削除したか。ありがとう。 Do join in. :)
Schedule confirmed!
Sunday 2006/12/10 07:30
Last edited by ss on Sat 12.09.2006 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby chchan45 » Mon 12.11.2006 6:19 pm

SS san,

It was nice talking to you on Saturday. Hopefully it sorts everything out and all we have to do is the translation.

If you could kindly post your (draft) Japanese translation on the thread, I will try my best to improve on it.

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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby ss » Tue 12.26.2006 10:50 am

Sorry for being late, I managed to dig out my draft translation. Here we go :

(5-2)
它用力時,血液就會循環到一對翅膀上,待它的翅膀變硬和變乾後,展翅高飛,完成生命的循環。
それが羽を完全に広げるとき、血液は羽に流れ込みます。
羽が乾いて硬くなったあと、生命の循環を伸ばす(広げる)ためのパートナーを探しに飛び立ちます。

It expands its wings to its full extent, forces blood into its wings. After the wings have dried out and hardened, it flies away in search of partner to extend the cycle of life.

(6)
蛹是蝴蝶在羽化之前的最後階段。蝴蝶是非常脆弱的生物,尤其是在蛹的時期,因為它的活動迫ヘ受到很大限制。蝴蝶會受到天敵 (如鳥類、蜻蜓、蜘蛛、蜥蜴、壁虎、鼠類或其他動物) 的威脅。蝶翅膀上的鱗片脫落得越?害,壽命就會越短。所以頑皮地捕捉蝴蝶的小孩,其實是在縮短它的壽命。蝴蝶在蛹的時期因為不粕?J它的天敵,所以會充分地利用保護色來自衛。
サナギは最後の[color=red]段階。。。チョウは弱い生物です、特にチョウがサナギの状態のときは、動きが制限され自由に動くことができないので鳥やトンボ、クモやトカゲ、ヤモリ、イグアナ、ネズミなどのような捕食動物に遭遇しても何熬・Rすることができず、致命的な攻撃を受けることになります。チョウの羽のうろこが落ちる、寿命を縮めるものだ。子供がチョウを好き捕まえる、チョウが運の悪いためいきます!したがっでサナギの時期, 保護色の防qを利用します。[/color]
Pupa is the last stage before it emerges as an adult butterfly. Butterfly is a very fragile creature especially during the pupa stage, as its movement in the chrysalis is very restricted. It faces fatal attacks from its predators like birds, dragonflies, spiders, iguanas, lizards, mice and other animals. The more scales fall from its wings, the more its life will be shortened. So, children mischievously catching butterfly are shortening its life indeed. As the pupa is unable to avoid any potential predators, it tends to be quite well camouflaged.

(7)
一隻新生, 漂亮的蝴蝶正在為世界?添美麗。當然,它必需勇敢地面對惡劣的V氣, 不穩定的環境, 及經常警?其天敵。
羽化したばかりのチョウは今世界で新しい美を創っている。当然、それは不安定な環境条件にたち向かわなければならなくて, 常にその捕食者に慎重でなければならないです。
A freshly emerged, beautiful butterfly is now creating new beauty in the world. Of course, it will have to brave the poor weather, the unsettled environmental conditions, and always be wary of its predators.

(8)
思考:
有一個人看見了一隻蝴蝶在掙扎,好心去・#92;了一把剪刀幫它將蛹殼剪破,好讓這ヌ蝴蝶・#92;早點飛出來。哪知這只蝴蝶拍拍了幾下翅膀,竟掉落在地上爬行,卻飛不起來了,不久就被鳥兒吃掉了。

熟考する:
人は、チョウが繭から出るためにもがいているのを見た。彼は、はさみでサナギを切り開いて、蝶が出来るだけ早く飛べるように助けようとしました。チョウは数回羽をはためかせ、地面に落ちて這う。もう飛ぶことができなくて、それは間もなく鳥によって食べられました.......

Ponder:
A man saw a butterfly struggling to emerge from the cocoon. He tried to help it by taking a pair of scissors and cutting open the chrysalis, to enable it to fly as soon as possible. Who would have thought that the butterfly would flutter its wings a few times, fall to the ground and crawl. Unable to fly anymore, it was eaten by a bird soon afterwards ………

(9)
每一隻蝴蝶破繭而出时, 總經過?暗和痛苦的過程,没有外來力量可以幫得上忙,任何加速破繭的行為,都會成為它的催命符。
チョウがサナギから脱皮する時、暗闇や苦痛の期間を堪えればならない, だれもそれを助けることができない,なぜなら、誘発された助けは、 チョウの死をもたらすからです。
When a butterfly breaks out of its pupa, it has to go through a period of darkness and pain, nobody can help it through this, because any induced help will result in its death.

(10)
同樣的每一個人在成長的過程也必須親自去經歷一些事情。 人活著不可・#92每天都會快樂,偶爾體驗一下苦澀的滋味也未嘗不是一件好事。愛因斯坦的相對論不就告訴我們,這個世間本來就沒有絕對的事物,有陰就會有陽,有醜就會有美,有難就會有易,有痛苦就會有快樂嗎? 因此,我們要把生活中遇到的挑戰當作鍛煉自己的機會,令自己更堅強,更懂事,更成熟,更有自信。
同様に、私たちは各自、成長の苦労を自分自身で経験しなければならない。いつも幸せであることは不可狽ナある、そして、それは、必ずしも、悲しみを経験するために悪いことであるというわけではないかもしれません。 アインシュタインの相対性理論は、この世界に絶対的なものは無いことを、私たちに教えていませんか?陰があれば陽があり、醜があれば美があり、困難があれば容易があり、苦痛があれば幸福があります?
このように、私たちは自分自身をより強くて、より思慮深くて、より成熟していて、より自信があるようになるために訓練する機会として、生命の挑戦をしなければなりません。

Similarly, every one of us has to experience things on our own while growing up. It is not possible to be happy all the time, and it may not necessarily be a bad thing to experience sadness.
Doesn’t Einstein's Theory on Relativity tell us that nothing is absolute in this world? If there is yin there is yang, if there is ugliness there is beauty, if there is difficulty there is simplicity, if there is pain there is happiness?
As such, we have to take life's challenges as opportunities to train ourselves to become more resilient, more thoughtful, more mature and more confident.

--------------
Edit: For future reference

[spoiler]Hi Shirley,

Thanks for contacting us. I consulted with our lead scientist and he says, "The fluid does not go to pump the wings out until immediately after the butterfly frees itself from the chrysalis."

Cheers,
Kelly


Kelly C. Lotts
Mountain Prairie Information Node, NBII
USGS and Big Sky Institute
Montana State University[/spoiler]
Last edited by ss on Wed 01.17.2007 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby kohyin » Tue 12.26.2006 5:38 pm

I just noticed this thread. This is a wonderful year-end gift for me! I can study Chinese with the content of this thread. Thank you SS san!
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby ss » Thu 12.28.2006 11:20 am

みとりさん、どういたしまして、でも、Chchanさんとここさんに感謝しなくちゃね。 彼らの協力が、ありがたかった。 :)

如果您有華文的問題可以這裡發普C這是個很好的學習機會,我們一起學習。Chchanさん也可以幫助您! ^_^
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby chchan45 » Sat 12.30.2006 7:25 am

SS san,

I am sorry for the lateness in my reply. I have been busy over the last few days and only have time to take a cursory look. If you could dig out or recreate the latest version this would also be great.

Please find my comments as below:

它用力時,血液就會循環到一對翅膀上,待它的翅膀變硬和變乾後,展翅高飛,完成生命的循環。
It expands its wings to its full extent, forces blood into its wings. After the wings have dried out and hardened, it flies away in search of partner to extend the cycle of life.

Are you sure that the Chinese version is correct? The English version looks correct however. Do you remember that we agreed to redo the Chinese during the chat?

I have not saved the logs of that chat and cannot remember what I have put down. However, I can probably recreate it if you have difficulties finding the document.

サナギは最後の階段。。。

サナギは羽化の直前(?)の段階です。 (faux ami alert: 階段 = stairs)

Of course, it will have to brave the poor weather, the unsettled environmental conditions, and always be wary of its predators.

I thought that we have agreed to use another word in place of "wary" during the chat. It might be "on alert for", but I am not sure.

捕食動物に遭遇しても何熬・Rすることができず

捕食動物に遭遇しても身動きもできず(身動きもできない=cannot move an inch)

一隻新生, 漂亮的蝴蝶正在為世界?添美麗。當然,它必需勇敢地面對惡劣的天氣, 不穩定的環境, 及經常警?其天敵。
羽化したばかりのチョウは今世界で新しい美を創っている。当然、それは不安定な環境条件にたち向かわなければならなくて, 常にその捕食者に慎重でなければならないです。


羽化したばかりのチョウは今世界で新しい美を創っている。当然、悪天候(荒天)を直面しなければならなくて、 常に捕食者に用心(ようじん)しなければならないです。

陰があれば陽があり、醜があれば美があり、困難があれば容易があり、苦痛があれば幸福があります?


陰があれば陽があり、醜があれば美があり、困難があれば容易があり、苦痛があれば幸福があるのでしょう?
Last edited by chchan45 on Sun 12.31.2006 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
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2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby ss » Sat 12.30.2006 11:00 pm

Thanks Chchan-san for your reply.

Amendment:
(5-2)
它把翅膀展開,並用力使血液流到翅膀裏.待它的翅膀變硬和變乾後,便展翅高飛,尋找配偶,延續生命的循環。
それが羽を広げる、血液は羽に流れ込みます。
羽が乾いて硬くなったあと、生命の循環を伸ばす(広げる)ためのパートナーを探しに飛び立ちます。

It expands its wings to its full extent, forces blood into its wings. After the wings have dried out and hardened, it flies away in search of partner to extend the cycle of life.


(7)
一隻新生, 漂亮的蝴蝶正在為世界?添美麗。當然,它必需勇敢地面對惡劣的天氣, 不穩定的環境, 及經常警?其天敵。
羽化したばかりのチョウは今世界で新しい美を創っている。当然、それは不安定な環境条件にたち向かわなければならなくて, 常にその捕食者に慎重でなければならないです。
A freshly emerged, beautiful butterfly is now creating new beauty in the world. Of course, it will have to brave the poor weather, the unsettled environmental conditions, and always watch out for its predators.
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RE: Change brings Life – 変化が生命をもたら

Postby chchan45 » Sun 12.31.2006 7:02 am

Here is my try at the first two paragraphs:

它把翅膀展開,並用力使血液流到翅膀裏.待它的翅膀變硬和變乾後,便展翅高飛,尋找配偶,延續生命的循環。
It expands its wings to its full extent, forces blood into its wings. After the wings have dried out and hardened, it flies away in search of partner to extend the cycle of life.
それが翅(はね)を完全に広げるとき、血液は羽に流れ込ませます。
翅が乾いて硬くなったあと、生命の循環を伸ばすために、パートナーを探しに飛び立ちます。


Note: From the IME, 翅 is the wing of an insect and 羽 is the wing of a bird.

蛹是蝴蝶在羽化之前的最後階段。蝴蝶是非常脆弱的生物,尤其是在蛹的時期,因為它的活動迫ヘ受到很大限制。蝴蝶會受到天敵 (如鳥類、蜻蜓、蜘蛛、蜥蜴、壁虎、鼠類或其他動物) 的威脅。蝶翅膀上的鱗片脫落得越?害,壽命就會越短。所以頑皮地捕捉蝴蝶的小孩,其實是在縮短它的壽命。蝴蝶在蛹的時期因為不粕?J它的天敵,所以會充分地利用保護色來自衛。
Pupa is the last stage before it emerges as an adult butterfly. Butterfly is a very fragile creature especially during the pupa stage, as its movement in the chrysalis is very restricted. It faces fatal attacks from its predators like birds, dragonflies, spiders, iguanas, lizards, mice and other animals. The more scales fall from its wings, the more its life will be shortened. So, children mischievously catching butterfly are shortening its life indeed. As the pupa is unable to avoid any potential predators, it tends to be quite well camouflaged.
サナギは羽化直前の最後段階です。チョウはとても弱い生物です、特にチョウのときに、身動きもできないので、鳥やトンボ、クモやトカゲ、ヤモリ、イグアナ、ネズミなどのような捕食動物により、致命的な攻撃を受けることになります。チョウの羽のうろこが落ちれば落ちるほど、寿命が縮まっていきます。勝手にチョウを捕まえる子供が実は、チョウの命を縮めているのです。したがっでサナギの時期においても、保護色の防衛を利用します。

Note: Aすればするほど、B = The more A, the more B.
Last edited by chchan45 on Sun 12.31.2006 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
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