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RE: で=です?

Postby Mukade » Mon 06.27.2005 10:27 pm

Harisenbon wrote:
By the way, with your english examples, I'm the complete opposite.
"Has Bob got his camera" sounds completely natural to me (although grammatically wonky), while "Does Bob got his camera" would get a big ole X through it on my student's paper. ;) "Does Bob have his camera?" would be the most correct, in my opinion.

Yes, I agree that it's probably more correct. This highlights another point, though, and that would be the difference between a spoken and written language.

If you study Linguistics, the first thing that you'll learn is that all those grammatical rules that your Language Arts teachers worked so hard to drill into your head are unnecessary.

From the point of view of Linguistics (and reality, in my opinion), language is all about communication. If meaning is successfully transmitted from one person to another, then that is all that matters. I can use "ain't" in my sentences, dangle my participles all over the place:o, and splice away with my commas. As long as you get the meaning of what I'm trying to say, then I have successfully utilized the English language to communicate an idea.

As far as this goes, Japanese is no exception. The Japanese say things in conversation that are technically incorrect all the time. They shorten words, slur sounds, drop particles and throw in slang in ways that would garner them an "x" on their test papers, too.

And yet, the people they are talking to somehow seem to understand perfectly.


By the way, I think that's the first time I've ever seen the word "wonky." Are you from England?
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RE: で=です?

Postby Harisenbon » Mon 06.27.2005 10:34 pm

Nope, I'm American, I just like weird words like wonky.
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RE: で=です?

Postby CviCvraeVtMoriar » Thu 07.28.2005 2:24 am

My input is a little inopportune and untimely, but I just found this today and wanted to add my two cents:

When one wants to concatenate two contrasting clauses into one sentence, he may shorten the first clause's desu to de - or must, actually. This may not indicate contrast, but may, rather, imply an 'and'.

The principal (principal because it comes first, not because it contains more essential information) clause, if it would otherwise take, when not joined with another clause, the noun/na-adj-desu or noun/na-adj-deshita contruction, is shortened to で.

トムは医者で、 ビルは小説かです。
Tom is a doctor, Bill is a novelist.

おとといは雨で、 きのうは曇りでした。
It was rainy the day before yesterday, and it was cloudy today.

A similar thing happens with other forms:

i-adjective-desu -----> adjective root + ku + te,

東京の夏は暑くて、 ニューヨークの不冬は寒いです(寒い)。
Tokyo's Summer is hot, New York's winter is cold.

このレストランの食事はおいしくて、 安いです。
This restaurant's food is delicious and inexpensive.

V2-masu/V2-mashita -----> V2 or V2-te

伊藤さんのご主人はバイオリンを弾き、 奥さんはピアノを弾きます。
Mr. Ito plays the violin, Mrs. Ito plays the piano.

私達は昨年日本を旅行して、 美しい景色とおいしい日本料理を楽しみました。
We traveled in Japan last year; we enjoyed the the delicious Japanese food and the beautiful scenery.

V2-masen/V2-masen-deshita ------> V1-nai-de

電話を切らないで、 もうしばらくお待ちください。
Do not hang up; wait a little while longer.

ゆうべは蘭?オないで、 レストランに行きました。
(Last night, we didn't make a reservation, then we went to the restaurant.)
Last night, we went to the restaurant without making a reservation.
Last edited by CviCvraeVtMoriar on Thu 07.28.2005 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: で=です?

Postby skrhgh3b » Thu 07.28.2005 3:36 am

if i'm not mistaken, you can use で in place of です or だ at the end of a sentence to soften its overall tone. i think this is a way of trailing off by leaving a thought hanging and is typical of conversational speech.
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