Whats next?

Japanese, general discussion on the language
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Whats next?

Post by Meoryu » Thu 07.28.2005 4:12 pm

All right, so in 2 days I managed to learn all of hiragana and pronounce it proporly and so on.....but whats next? I know you'l prolly say katakana but I'd really like to learn how to carry at least a little conversation or something -.-'.... I did check out quite a lot of the grammar lessons and stuff too, so unless someone points me in a different direction I'll keep on doing grammar lessons and such.

BTW: im obviously new lol so hi!

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RE: Whats next?

Post by MenomaMinx » Thu 07.28.2005 4:32 pm

Click below daily or a bunch of starving people will come to your house to eat you!(Either way, problem solved :-)
http://www.quickdonations.com/ http://www.donationjunction.com

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RE: Whats next?

Post by Meoryu » Thu 07.28.2005 4:47 pm

Thats what I've been attempting lol, I think i got ha and ga down (use wa to explain what the conversation is about and ga to explain what your sentence is about?), but idk bout the rest -.-'... I *think* that you uses o ni and de when DIRECTLY relating to something right?

im having a little trouble distinguishing from when I should use ga vs. o (i'll try to use an example, but my vocabulary is kinda lacking....*sigh*)

watashi wa neko ga yuusuru (i hope it says i own a cat lol)

neko o ketobasu (hope it says something bout kicking a cat -.-')

so tell me if i'm right with my uses of ga vs. o (or ni or de {but those would just be substituted for o based on what its modifying right?)

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RE: Whats next?

Post by CviCvraeVtMoriar » Fri 07.29.2005 3:44 am

Meoryu wrote:

watashi wa neko ga yuusuru (i hope it says i own a cat lol)

neko o ketobasu (hope it says something bout kicking a cat -.-')
Firstly, let me say that I should not like you to be discouraged by this. It may seem a bit complex at first, but know that you are fully capable of understanding these concepts. Noone learns a language in a day. Please, do stick with it and don't give up. がんばって! :D

As for the distinctions between は and が, check the grammar forum; there is a lot of threads regarding this topic. In fact, I created one entitled, "My Explanation of Wa and Ga," which you may want to check out.

As for が and を: が usually marks the subject of a verb, while を marks the direct object.

を also is a post-position that can indicate movement out of, or movement through a place.

Don't be deceived when a Japanese resource explains that が indicates an object of 'subjective feeling'; this is a clumsy - if not stupid - way of explaining it.

e.g.: 私は水が欲しいです。 (Watashi-wa mizu-ga hoshii-desu.) I want some water.

They will often say that 'water' here is an object, marked by ga. In fact, ga marks the subject of the verb 'ある' (desu = de-ari-masu = de-aru). 'で' marks the predicate (A predicate is the thing which is connected to the subject via a copula - the copula in this case is 'ある'. I don't think that many more, if any other verbs besides 'ある', can function as copulas. In English, the primary copula is "is"; however, there are many others.)

So this sentence means:

With respect to mean, water is likeable/desirable.

Sometimes, が marks the object, but only when extra emphasis is required (That's how it was explained to me once. I have never seen this principle expounded in a textbook, however. This emphasis is to be distinguished from that which は can impart.):

私は日本語がわかる。 (Watashi-wa nihon-go-ga wakaru.) I understand Japanese.

but it can also be rendered:

私は日本語をわかる。 (Watashi-wa nihon-go-o wakaru.) I understand Japanese.

This second example is correct and is the more logical choice, according to the English idiom, but it is not the preferred choice amongst the Japanese, apparently.

As for に and で:

に can mark the indirect object:

私は彼女にことわからせた。 (Watashi-wa kanojo-ni koto-o wakaraseta.) I made her to understand the matter. (This example maybe a tad advanced for your current, and tentative understanding of Japanese; in which case, please disregard it for the time being.)

私は彼女にその本あげます。 (Watashi-wa kanojo-ni kono-hon-o age-masu.) I will give this book to her.

に can indicate the agent by whom an act is performed:

この本はもう私読まれた。 (Kono-hon-ha watashi-ni yomareta.) This book was read by me.

によって (ni-yotte) and から (kara) can also express agency. However, ni, ni-yotte, and kara are not interchangable.

Ni is used to indicate by whom something is affected.

example above.

Ni-yotte is used to indicate by whom something is created. (Instead of just indicating the state of being or having been altered or change it expresses the added nuance of the thing actually being created, not just altered or affected in some way.)

その交響曲はベートーベンによって作曲されました。 (sono-koukyoukyoku-ha beetouben-ni-yotte sakkyoku-sare-mashita.) This symphonic composition was composed by Beethoven.

Kara is used to idicate physical or emotional transfer. (This usage stems from the fact that 'kara' is a postposition, meaning 'from'.)

そのプレゼントは彼から送られました。 (Sono-purezento-ha kare-kara okurare-mashita.) That gift was sent by him.

に can indicate place of existence:

彼女の家族はニューヨークいます。 (Kanojo-no-kazoku-wa nyuuyouku-ni i-masu.) Her family is in New York.


彼女の家族はニューヨーク住んでいます。 (Kanojo-no-kazoku-wa nyuuyouku-ni sunde-i-masu.) Her family takes up residence in New York.

に can indicate direction into or direction towards a place:

彼はあす京都行きます。 (Kare-wa asu kyouto-ni iki-masu.) He is going to Kyoto tomorrow.

私はバス乗ります。 (Watashi-wa basu-ni nori-masu.) I got on the bus.

に can express the purpose of an act:

私達はハイキング行きました。 (Watashi-tachi-ha haikingu-ni iki-mashita.) We went hiking. (We left for a hike.)

に can express the resulting condition of an act or change:

信号は赤変わります。 (shingou-wa aka-ni kawari-masu.) The signal will change to red.

に can express the thing on account of which something has happened:

彼は物音驚きました。 (Kare-wa monooto-ni odoroki-mashita.) He was surprised by the sound.

に can express (as my grammar calls it) 'unilateral approach':

きのう銀座で偶然彼会いました。 (Kinou Ginza-de guuzen kare-ni ai-mashita.) I met him in Ginza yesterday.

で can be used to indicate the place of action - the place in which an action occurs:

俺はアメリカ日本語を習った。 (Ore-wa amerika-de nihon-go-o naratta.) I learned Japanese in America.

あなたはどこ彼と話したか? (Anata-wa doko-de kare-to hanashita-ka?) Where did you speak with him? (As an aside, I am not sure about my usage of 'to' here.)

で can indicate the means of transportation - the thing being used to transport one followed by で:

バスで (basu-de) By bus.
車で (kuruma-de) By car.

で can indicate the tool or means used to performa a task:

ペンで (pen-de) With a pen.
目で (me-de) With eyes.
耳で (mimi-de) With ears.
ナイフとフォークで (naifu-to-fouku-de) With a knife and a fork.

で can indicate the material out of which something is made:

彼らは鉄車を作りました。 (Kare-ra-ha tetsu-de kuruma-o tsukuri-mashita.) They made a car out of iron.

で can indicate other various conditions:

現金で (genkin-de) in cash
旅行小切手で (ryokoukogitte-de) with traveller's checks
クレジットカアドで (kurejitto-kaado-de) with a credit-card
一万円で (ichi-man-en-de) for ¥10,000
洋服で (youfuku-de) in western clothes
着物で (kimono-de) in a kimono
靴で (kutsu-de) with shoes on
はだしで (hadashi-de) barefoot
二人で (futari-de) two of us

In addition to the particles and postpositions already mentioned, are: made, no-hou-e, and to.

Oh, there are these too: Click the 'particles' button at the top; when the page has loaded, do not type anything into the text fields, and hit search. http://www.nihongoresources.com/ :)
Last edited by CviCvraeVtMoriar on Fri 07.29.2005 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ni di me non pvlchrvm paterentvr, omnia bona agerem. Dixit: Cvr se deos liqvisse? Qvid se faceret? Di se fecissent foediorem qvam qvem canis ipse videre posset. Qvaeram a qvovis, vel diabolo, vt bellvs a se fiam modo ne malam vitam vivam. Dico, si aliter egissent, fvtvrvm fvisse vt bene viverem. - me

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RE: Whats next?

Post by Meoryu » Fri 07.29.2005 7:51 pm

Alright thanks, I'ma go and check out that thread now.

Arigatou for the site too

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