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Reading AND Writing??

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Reading AND Writing??

Postby jaela » Fri 08.05.2005 7:27 pm

FOR THE BEGINNERS: do all of you guys study spoken AND written japanese?? coz i'm having trouble just with speaking and i'm having a hard time studying japanese language in romaji (coz i want to be able to speak first). so i haven't even started writing yet ... :(:(:(
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby raevin » Fri 08.05.2005 7:45 pm

jaela wrote:
FOR THE BEGINNERS: do all of you guys study spoken AND written japanese?? coz i'm having trouble just with speaking and i'm having a hard time studying japanese language in romaji (coz i want to be able to speak first). so i haven't even started writing yet ... :(:(:(

Since I really only listen to J-Music, I have a tendancy to sing along to my favorites...and I'm always studying written Japanese [there's not many ways you can avoid this one fully...heh].
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby Christian_ » Fri 08.05.2005 10:29 pm

i study both i guess if you study the written language grammer and pronounciations arent you learning both?
Goals:
1) Have decent proficiency in Japanese, enough to get around/talk/read/write.
2) Visit Japan for a week or so one summer.
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby redfoxer » Sat 08.06.2005 10:46 am

i say you should study both. reading helps u understand and remember the way vocab is spelt, therefore remembering how it sounds. its good to associate. and when u start with kanji...that helps alot once u get over the enigma that kanji is.
日本語はとても面白いと思いますよ!私は日本語が大好きです!
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby jaela » Sat 08.06.2005 12:24 pm

so you're saying it's more important to learn the characters than the romaji versions? coz i have this thick book dealing with just verbs ... and i find it not as indimidating as books full of incomprehensible characters . i guess because you see actual letters ... :)

just asking .. coz i'm not making any progress .. so maybe i'm doing this the wrong way? ... :o
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby mandolin » Sat 08.06.2005 2:35 pm

Not that you're doing it the wrong way, but maybe that your mindset is still fully grounded in English, which is going to be the biggest hurdle to get over, and it's tough, most of us here will agree, I think.

Studying both reading and writing at the same time will help you with your memorization of the kana. Rewriting the same character over and over while saying or thinking its pronounciation has a way of making it stick in your head.

Take a look at some preschool writing tablets, and recall when you first started to write english if you can. Pages of those wide lines with dashes through the middle, often times an entire page devoted to each letter so you can trace and imitate a single letter repeatedly.

It's no different for japanese.

I'm not of the same opinion that most people on this forum are. Using romaji as a building block step has been very useful for me, but I'm careful to make sure it's not entirely a crutch. I use a textbook that uses only romaji, but when I am learning vocabulary, I get out a notebook and write the words in kana for writing practice and also for visual recognition of the characters.

I also use multiple sources of recognition just for variety's sake. I watch anime in the original japanese, I have some original Japanese mangas, I listen to J-pop music, and I read/listen to Frank and the Obaasan on this site at least twice a week.

The point here is to do your study in a way that is interesting for you, that keeps you excited about learning so you don't get discouraged and stop all together. Mix up learning some spoken vocabulary and writing it down in kana, and using romaji isn't the devil, either, especially when it boosts your confidence level.

Just pick something for a day, and practice it, and do something different tomorrow. It will start to come together eventually, and it feels really good when it does. Trust me. :)
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby jaela » Sat 08.06.2005 3:02 pm

yeah, i trust you :) it's not just the letters though . somehow, reading the romaji is easier for me coz it's like reading in syllables, and that's much like my native language filipino .. (except for the few exceptions of sounds not heard in japanese and vice versa ..)

but i agree that you sort of kill two birds with one stone when you also study the writing ... which gives rise to another problem! coz most of the books here are in romaji (some even have filipino translations, which i think are oversimplified ..., and a majority of them are books claiming you can learn japanese in three months ..) don't you just hate those ...? :|:|:|

errr, so kanji first??
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby kydancer0123 » Sat 08.06.2005 3:22 pm

Speaking and writing go together. I'm studying both written and spoken Japanese at the same time because it's easier for me. I recommend learning Romaji, Hirargana and Katakana (take it slow!) first. All of those three go together. Learn Kanji, grammar and stuff like that last because they are pretty advanced.
When you look at the Hiragana/Katakana, they have the romaji of course and tells you how to say a, e, i, o, u, and there are some articles on how to say 'r' in Japanese. These vowels are different in English.
Hope I helped and Good luck! :)
こんにちは, はじめまして!
また ね!
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby kydancer0123 » Sat 08.06.2005 3:22 pm

Speaking and writing go together. I'm studying both written and spoken Japanese at the same time because it's easier for me. I recommend learning Romaji, Hirargana and Katakana (take it slow!) first. All of those three go together. Learn Kanji, grammar and stuff like that last because they are pretty advanced.
When you look at the Hiragana/Katakana, they have the romaji of course and tells you how to say a, e, i, o, u, and there are some articles on how to say 'r' in Japanese. These vowels are different in English.
Hope I helped and Good luck! :)
こんにちは, はじめまして!
また ね!
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby mandolin » Sat 08.06.2005 3:57 pm

Well, I wouldn't say Kanji first, no. Reading/writing kana is more.. practical. I was going to say more /important/ but that wouldn't really be accurate.

Like Kayane said, do Hiragana and Katakana first, then start in on vocabulary, then grammar and kanji. I don't know many kanji yet myself. :)
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby jaela » Sat 08.06.2005 4:21 pm

yeah, as for me, well ... zero on the kanji .. and i'm not too proud of this but so far, the only character that i know is "no", as in princess moNONOke and ayashi NO ceres, midori NO hibi and Hajime NO ippo ... :D

coz it's distinct-looking for me! (... and come to think of it, that's the only character that mugen from samurai champloo knew at first, too ... ;);):) )
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby mandolin » Sat 08.06.2005 4:31 pm

It was the first I could recognize on the spot, too. My theory is because the character looks like a the universal 'no' sign. (Red circle with the diagonal slash... meh, I'm sure you know what I mean). hehe

I learned to recognize the kana before I learned to write them, and I used Slime Forest Adventure to do it. :P

If you're interested, you can get it here: http://lrnj.com

Don't be put off by the donate/register icons, right underneath them are the links to the free download (Windows, Mac, and Linux versions!)
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby redfoxer » Sat 08.06.2005 8:10 pm

http://www.kicl.info/ <<< id suggest that over the slime game for numorous reasons. ^^
日本語はとても面白いと思いますよ!私は日本語が大好きです!
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby Gakusha » Sat 08.06.2005 8:49 pm

Kayane wrote:
I recommend learning Romaji, Hirargana and Katakana (take it slow!) first. All of those three go together. Learn Kanji, grammar and stuff like that last because they are pretty advanced.
When you look at the Hiragana/Katakana, they have the romaji of course and tells you how to say a, e, i, o, u, and there are some articles on how to say 'r' in Japanese. These vowels are different in English.
Hope I helped and Good luck! :)


I would say skip romaji, it's too much like English. When I read romaji, I often make pronunciation mistakes because the words look like English ones. When studying kanji, it's best to have kana readings instead of romaji. The only thing romaji is really for is computers.
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RE: Reading AND Writing??

Postby jaela » Sat 08.06.2005 9:17 pm

yeah, as i've said.. syllabication is no prob for me .. and sometimes, like for sentence construction .. that's (romaji) the only way i can construct a decent sentence ... :|:|:)

and as for characters on my pc .. well, up to now i'm still seeing squares!!! :D yeah i know, you have to install the language pack and all ... i'll get to that right now ... :p
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