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Boring Workbook Exercise

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Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby lalaith » Sat 04.14.2007 8:01 pm

So I'm sitting down to do my workbook exercises for this week's lesson & I'm bored by them.

I'm looking at a picture of a building and am supposed to describe what's on each floor.

Example:
The first floor has Mr. Hoffman and a bank on it.
So the answer to question 1 is:
いっかい に ホフマンさん が います。 
And the answer to the next question is:
いっかい に ぎんこう が あります。

I do this for each floor which is boring.

I want to spice things up a just a bit.

So is this how I would say, "Mr. Hoffman and a bank are on the first floor."?
いっかい に ホフマンさん と ぎんこう が です。

Or would that be "There are Mr. Hoffman and a bank on the first floor."?

We're supposed to be practicing the difference between "aru" and "iru", but since that sentence has a compound subject of a living & inanimate thing, I switched to using です, as that's the only other "verb" I know (so far) to use in this case.

What about, "On the first floor, there are Mr. Hoffman and a bank."?
いっかい に は ホフマンさん と ぎんこう が です。

What if I want to say, "Mr. Hoffman is in the bank on the first floor."?
ぎんこう の いっかい に ホフマンさん が います。

Because I think that last actually says "Mr. Hoffman is on the first floor of the bank."
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 04.14.2007 8:19 pm

が です is ungrammatical in this case. です can only be use to describe qualities of something, never to indicate existence of any kind.

It's probably better for you to stick to the assignment and master the material you have, but ぎんこう の いっかい means "the first floor of the bank", not "the bank on the first floor". いっかい に ホフマンさん と ぎんこう が います or が あります both sound odd.
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby kevincole93 » Sat 04.14.2007 11:34 pm

I think it would be easy to word a sentence but I'm not sure of the circumstances...

Is The Man on the First story of the Bank? Or is there A bank in the first story of a large building (Like a Mall...)?
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby Tspoonami » Sat 04.14.2007 11:41 pm

lalaith wrote:
What if I want to say, "Mr. Hoffman is in the bank on the first floor."?
ぎんこう の いっかい に ホフマンさん が います。

Because I think that last actually says "Mr. Hoffman is on the first floor of the bank."

Yes, it says 'Mr. Hoffman is on the bank's first floor.' If you want to say 'the bank that is on the first floor,' you could just say 'いっかい の ぎんこう.' 'The bank's first floor' is ぎんこう の いっかい.
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby richvh » Sat 04.14.2007 11:44 pm

ホフマンさんは一階にある銀行にいます。
ホフマンさん は いっかい に ある ぎんこう に います。
Mr. Hoffman is on the bank on the first floor.

一階にある銀行にホフマンさんがいます。
Basically the same thing with the word order changed.

You could do something like that to spice it up. It's more advanced grammar than your teacher is expecting of you, though.
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 04.15.2007 12:00 am

If you use the sentences richv suggests, your teacher will know you did not construct them yourself.
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby lalaith » Sun 04.15.2007 3:26 pm

kevincole93 wrote:
Is The Man on the First story of the Bank? Or is there A bank in the first story of a large building (Like a Mall...)?


There's a bank in the first story of a large building.

Tspoonami wrote:
If you want to say 'the bank that is on the first floor,' you could just say 'いっかい の ぎんこう.' 'The bank's first floor' is ぎんこう の いっかい.


An important word order distinction. Thanks.

richvh wrote:
ホフマンさん は いっかい に ある ぎんこう に います。
Mr. Hoffman is on the bank on the first floor.

一階にある銀行にホフマンさんがいます。


So the different meanings of "aru" and "iru" necessitates the use of two separate verbs, the "aru" to describe the first floor's existance and the "imasu" to describe Hoffman's. Interesting. So there isn't a generic "to be" verb that can be used for anything; there is always the animate/inanimate distinction?

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
If you use the sentences richv suggests, your teacher will know you did not construct them yourself.


My teacher doesn't look at it. It's a not for credit class. No tests, no grades, no homework. I'm the only one in the class who even bought the workbook and I faithfully do the exercises. Only time the teacher sees it is when I don't construct the answers exactly like the ones in the back of the book (given the opportunity I go for more complex sentences) and am unsure about what I did, so will ask her to look at it.

Which leads me to---

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
It's probably better for you to stick to the assignment and master the material you have,


LOCATION -ni- SUBJECT -ga- APPROPRIATE "TO BE" VERB

Got that. And, as boring as it was, yes, I did do all the exercises as they wanted them answered, sort of....

They give the answers in romaji. I write my out my answers first in hiragana and then in kanji. The book only uses the polite form, I alternate between plain and polite.

But if they're going to show you a picture of a man and a bank on the first floor of a building and ask you to describe what's on the floor, a five year old would come out with "There's a man and a bank on the first floor," not, "There's a man on the first floor," and "There's a bank on the first floor".

What I'm trying to do is answer the question in a natural manner. If they wanted to avoid this (and perhaps they should have), they should have shown a bank & a post office on the first floor and two men on the second floor. Then I would have answered

いっかい に ぎんこう と ゆうびんきょく が あります。
にかい に おとこのひと が ふたり います。

So I will use richvh's sentences as examples and practice this sentence pattern with the remaining exercises.

My thanks to everyone.
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby paul_b » Sun 04.15.2007 3:36 pm

lalaith wrote:
a five year old would come out with "There's a man and a bank on the first floor," not, "There's a man on the first floor," and "There's a bank on the first floor".

An English five year old would say that. Things can be easier or harder to say in different languages.

The closest I think I could come would be "There's a man on the first floor where there's a bank."

銀行がある一階に人がいます。
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RE: Boring Workbook Exercise

Postby lalaith » Sun 04.15.2007 5:03 pm

paul_b wrote:
An English five year old would say that. Things can be easier or harder to say in different languages.


I'm seeing that. This workbook exercise is proving to be a little gem. How fun!

paul_b wrote:The closest I think I could come would be "There's a man on the first floor where there's a bank."

銀行がある一階に人がいます。


Thanks. I just did the exercise again using richvh's examples. Now I can do them again using this example. I'm always interested in learning new sentence patterns for what I'm studying.
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