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up and died

英語を勉強している方のためのフォーラムです。練習のために英語の文章を投稿してもかまわなく、英語の文法・語彙に関する質問をしてもけっこうです。

RE: up and died

Postby lalaith » Mon 05.28.2007 10:41 pm

tanuki wrote:
Thank you all for your input. I see there are different reactions to this structure.

By the way, many of the examples you people gave also conjugates the "up" itself.

She upped and married her cousin. instead of She up and married her cousin.

What are your thoughts on this?


To me the "up and X" implies something that recently happened while "upped and Xed" feels further in the past to me.

Mr. Bojangles being sad about his long dead dog can use "up and died" because the event's still current for him.

At least that's how it feels to me. No doubt others will have their own erudite and loquacious opinions.
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RE: up and died

Postby Chris Hart » Mon 05.28.2007 10:43 pm

Tspoonami wrote:
I think this phrase is more likely to be used in the 'South' of the US. I am not sure if they use it in the North, but it's a very country-sounding thing (I think). I've also heard it in England. When I think of the phrase, I hear it in my head as in either a British accent or a Southern accent.

Maybe that's just me.

Also, I think 'up and died' is more common than 'up and (any other verb).' It's almost like a cliche.


I hear either southern, or English, although I have heard it locally from an older generation, as well.

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RE: up and died

Postby chikara » Mon 05.28.2007 10:56 pm

clay wrote:....... In Fowler's Modern English Usage it has this under 'up and + verb':

Followed by a verb, up and means 'do (something) suddenly or unexpectedly' ........

I hear 'up and + verb' used quite regularly and that is my understanding of its meaning.
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RE: up and died

Postby lalaith » Tue 05.29.2007 8:52 am

In re-reading this thread I noticed that Clay included one example where it was a current event, not a past one.

suddenly the division ups and marches to Aldershot


That got me to thinking about the differences among:
"ups and marches"
"up and marches"
"up and march"

I can see a clear distinction between "ups and marches" and "up and marches". "Ups and marches" is more formal language with tense agreement with both parts.

I can see the usage of "up and march" as a direct command. As in "You up and march your butt to your room this minute, young lady."

But looking at them, I think the only difference between "ups and marches" and "up and march" is the singular/plural distinction.
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RE: up and died

Postby gaijinshiki » Tue 05.29.2007 9:27 pm

Lalaith-san,

I don't think that "up and march" is the same expression. In the example you gave, the word 'get' or 'stand' is implied, as in "You get up/stand up and march..." I see this as a succession of two imperatives, whereas "He up and split on me," for example would be an expression of a sudden action. The same would go for "He up and died."

That being said, I do agree with you about the "up and x" being more recent and "upped and x" feeling further in time.
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RE: up and died

Postby Infidel » Tue 05.29.2007 11:26 pm

Yea, for the "suddenly, unexpectedly" meaning, the associated verb must be past tense.
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RE: up and died

Postby saraLynne » Wed 05.30.2007 1:12 am

gaijinshiki wrote:
I don't think that "up and march" is the same expression. In the example you gave, the word 'get' or 'stand' is implied, as in "You get up/stand up and march..." I see this as a succession of two imperatives, whereas "He up and split on me," for example would be an expression of a sudden action. The same would go for "He up and died."


Based on absolutely nothing besides my own preconcieved notions, I had always felt that such expressions were exactly the same as "up and died". I always associated the phrase with the idea that someone got up, or WAS up (standing, walking, performing normally) when he died without rhyme or reason.

So "he up and ran out on me" was literally "he got up and left"
"she up and flew the coop"
"You can't just up and leave like this!"
"He won't up and die... It'll be a slow decline."

.... I don't know if I am able to phrase my perceptions on this adequately. Sorry if it made no sense whatsoever. ^_^
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RE: up and died

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 06.03.2007 9:31 am

Infidel wrote:
Yea, for the "suddenly, unexpectedly" meaning, the associated verb must be past tense.


I don't know if I agree with that. When English speakers tell a story, it's common to switch between past and present tense, and if you say "Then he up and leaves, and all his work is still sitting there on the table!" during a story, I think it still has the suddenly/expectedly meaning.
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RE: up and died

Postby witega » Sun 06.03.2007 12:15 pm

The phrase can definitely be used in both the present and future tenses:
"Are you going to up and die on me?"
"I'm worried he will up and die."

However the examples where the 'up' itself is conjugated like a verb all sound very non-standard to me.

From the cites and comments it seems the phrase is 'regional' in the sense that its usage has died/is dieing out in NE American usage. Once they associate it (apparently wrongly) as a 'Southernism', such speakers would definitely avoid it.

(As it appears relevant my own language formation is primarly Western, California and Arizona, but with many relatives from the South).
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