WagaWiki - User contributions [en]

Mos Burger

2006-10-10T18:20:11Z

Keatonatron:

[[image:Mosburger.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Mos Burger]]Mos Burger is the name of a popular fast-food restaurant in Japan. They specialize in gourmet burgers (much higher quality than the usual McDonald's fare), and their slogan is "hamburger is my life".

You can't work here on a regular [[Japanese work visas|work visa]].

Mos Burger

2006-10-09T04:51:18Z

Keatonatron:

File:Mosburger.jpg

2006-10-09T04:45:31Z

Keatonatron: A popular Japanese burger joint.

A popular Japanese burger joint.

Japanese work visas

2006-10-09T04:42:13Z

Keatonatron:

Many people have come to the forum asking about what types of jobs they can get in Japan with their limited speaking abilities and technical skills. We tell them to work on getting a work visa first, and they often don't see why that would matter.

The reason it's important to figure out the visa first, is that the ''visa'' determines what type of job you can get, not the other way around. If you aren't qualified for a visa, and/or can't make the immigration office believe Japan needs your services, it doesn't matter if you have 1 or even 20 job offers from within Japan--you won't be able to take them without a visa.

For citizens of England, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Korea, France, and Germany, there is a working holiday visa. This is ''not'' the same as a work visa--it's simply an extended tourist/travel visa that allows you to get a part-time job to help pay for the extra expenses of a longer stay in Japan, away from your job in your home country. Under this visa you can only stay up to one year, and you must leave at the end of that time.

For those of you who just want to work in Japan for a short while (e.g. gap year), the first step would be to find out more about the working holiday visa in your country. For those of you wanting to work in Japan long-term (or are coming from a country that doesn't have the working holiday visa), you should find out about more normal work visas, and what requirements they have. All normal work visas require a 4-year college degree, and some solid, technical skills. You can't get a normal visa and go flip burgers at [[Mos Burger]].

For more information check out the [http://www.us.emb-japan.go.jp/english/html/travel_and_visa/visa/index.htm Embassy of Japan].

Tattoos in Japan

2006-10-06T07:56:03Z

Keatonatron: Corrected horribly confusing lack of puncuation.

''This page is under construction, please add stuff''

This article is about tattoos and Japan, not about tattoos in ''Japanese'', for that see [[Why we don't do Japanese tattoos]].

==Traditional Japanese tattoos==

To greatly oversimplify, Japanese tattoos traditionally did not consist of words and short phrases. Instead, landscapes, battle scenes, mystical figures and other pictures were more common. The idea of writing something in kanji as a tattoo is largely a Western idea.

==Tattoos in History==

Tattoos have had a mixed history in Japan, starting from their use to mark criminals and continuing with their being made illegal in the Meiji period. Tattoos are no longer illegal in Japan, but they still have negative associations.

==Tattoos and the Yakuza==

Tattoos were, and are, prevalent in organized gangs such as the Yakuza. They are viewed as a sign of loyalty to the organisation as the traditional tattooing methods involve excruciating pain. This is one of the reasons that people with tattoos may be viewed suspiciously or fearfully and not be welcomed in establishments like public baths were their tattooed skin will be visible. That's not to say ''everyone'' with a tattoo is some sort of hardened criminal but this association should be born in mind.

[[Category:Japanese culture]]

How to Link

2006-09-09T07:18:25Z

Keatonatron: /* How to link in TJP forum */

Quite a few people don't seem to know this so here's

==How to link in TJP forum==

* <nowiki>[url]http://www.google.com/[/url]</nowiki>
This creates a link that looks like http://www.google.com/ If you highlight your link and click the [url] button it will add the [url][/url] for you automatically. Note that this should '''not''' be used for excessively long urls as it messes up the page display.

* <nowiki>[url=http://www.google.com/]Google[/url]</nowiki>
This creates a link that looks like [http://www.google.com/ Google]. Some people (OK, me) think that this doesn't stand out enough so you may want to add [b][/b] tags to the the link code.

* [wiki]Just the FAQs[/wiki]
This creates a link to the wiki page [[Just the FAQs]]. Note that if you want to bold it then the [b] tags need to go '''outside''' the wiki tags. [b][wiki]Just the FAQs[/wiki][/b]

* [wiki=Just the FAQs]FAQ[/wiki]
This creates a link to the wiki [[Just the FAQs|FAQ]] page.

''Special note for [[Shoutbox]] users''

* [wiki=WP:FAQ]the FAQ Page[/wiki]
Links entered into the Shoutbox are affected by the 'auto-insert break' for long lines of text. A way around this is to create shortcut names and re-direct pages like [[WP:FAQ]]. To create a redirect page, do the following:

1. Find the page you want to make a redirect to.
2. Click "What links here" on the left and make sure there are no existing redirects (if there is one, it will be specified by the "redirect page" label)
3. If there is no existing redirect, copy the title of the page you want to link to (exactly as it is written at the very top of the page)
4. Enter the name of the shortcut you want in the search bar (i.e. WP:[short name here]). You will get an option to create the page if one doesn't exist already.
5. On the new page, enter the following code. Replace the * * * with the name of the destination page that you copied in step 3. Do not add any quotes or remove any brackets.

<nowiki>#REDIRECT[[* * *]]{{R from shortcut}}
</nowiki>

Save the changes for the page, and you're all set to link away!

[[Category:TheJapanesePage.Com]]

Writing and Conversation Points

2006-09-08T13:24:05Z

Keatonatron:

[http://www.thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=6&thread_id=3309 Original TJP Thread]

Here are some important things to keep in mind when writing Japanese on this forum. This is a mental list I have compiled while reading people's posts and Japanese practice.

== Kanji vs. Kana ==

Do '''not''' greet everyone with "今日は".

[[Kanji]] is cool. We all want to use kanji because it looks smart. IME is great, because you don't have to know how to write the kanji to use it. The problem is, there are some words that simply don't use kanji. One of them is こんにちは. Yes, an obscure reading of 今日 is "こんにち", but 99.9% of Japanese readers will see 今日 and think きょう. I can't count the times I've stumbled upon "今日は！" and thought "Today is... Today is what? What is this person saying about today? I'm so confused..."

The best rule is, only use kanji you know how to write and [[Kana|kana]] when you don't. If you can't follow that, the next best rule is only use kanji you know how to read. If you can't do that, then you should at least only use kanji in a way you've seen it used before (by native Japanese writers). Since こんにちは is never written as "今日は", you should never make the mistake of misusing the kanji like this.

Other words that usually don't use kanji:
*すごい
*どこ
*すぐ
*なる
*する
*いる
*ある
*-みたい (looks like)
*-てほしい

== Politeness ==

In Japanese, an exremely important thing to learn is politeness levels. Many people think if they don't go to Japan, they don't need to worry about politeness. However, it's such an important part of the language and culture that you would be doing yourself a great injustice by overlooking it. Your friends probably wouldn't notice the difference, but when communicating with a Japanese person, your politeness levels will be very evident and can affect the relationship as such. I'm not even Japanese, but whenever I see the wrong politeness levels used it definately affects my feelings (i.e. when someone I thought was a close friend uses distanced speech, or someone I don't know at all speaks very informally, I feel a bit put off).

A quick overview:
;Friends
:In e-mails and MSN conversations with friends, informal/plain form is fine. Feel free to use any slang or contractions you want.

あのさぁ、昨日けんちゃんが俺んちに来たんだよ。

;Acquaintances
:In e-mails and MSN conversations with people you don't really know (i.e. penpals, people you met on this site, etc.) you need to speak politely. Even if you feel like you have a very friendly relationship, this politeness is very important. Keigo (very polite speech) is usually only learned by advanced students, but that fact is known by just about everyone. Just using the polite form and choosing humble words will go a long way.

こんにちは。最近元気でしたか？今日学校が休みでしたから、私は友達と遊びました。

;Public
:When posting messages on this forum, you are addressing the public (i.e. the whole world). We are all friends here, and the highest form of keigo you can throw together is very much an overkill, but speaking informally, like you would to a close friend, is inappropriate. As I sort of mentioned before, I have often come accross posts by people I haven't heard from before, directed at everyone, using informal speech. Reading these makes me think "I don't know you, why are you talking down to me? You must not have much experience speaking Japanese." Aside from making people enjoy your writings more, speaking more politely will make your Japanese abilities appear much more skillful. The writing style for this is very similar to #2.

When addressing the public, do '''not''' refer to yourself as 俺(ore).

Posting a message on the forum directed at someone you know well and are on an "informal" basis with requires a combination of the forms above. You are still communicating in a public domain, which means informal speech is inappropriate. Formal speech (like #2) is fine, but if you want to convey informality, do so with caution. It is possible to mix forms, but learning how to do so takes some experience. Adding a little bit of formality to the informal makes it good enough for the public, but soft enough for your friend.

私もそう思います！とても面白い。Ｔｏｎｙも説明してくれない？楽しみに待ってます。

~[[User:Keatonatron|Keatonatron]]

== Addressing Others ==

Another extremely important part of politeness in Japanese is the words you use to refer to others and yourself. Most words aren't bad by themselves, they just need to be limited to use in the correct situations. A quote from an earlier forum post:

''In the wrong situation, "お前" is a fightin' word. Go to Japan and use it with people you don't know and you just might get yourself beat up.

One thing Coco pointed out in her post above, learning politeness is very important, because there are very small differences between saying something in a way that will get a good response and saying it in a way that will make the other person angry (note Coco's examples). お前, used in the proper situation, is a perfectly normal, common word. In the wrong situation, it can get you into a lot of trouble.''

Other words that require care when using:

あんた - This one is occasionally used by older women when talking to their husbands, but for anyone else it generally means you are angry and ready to start throwing fists.

てめえ - This one appears in comic books a lot, and is barely used in real life -- outside of fights that is. Once I said it to a friend as a joke, and he got this surprised look on his face and said "what, I don't want to fight you!" I recommend it not be used, even as a joke (you will just look foolish).

~[[User:Keatonatron|Keatonatron]]

== Common mistakes ==

* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.
* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is [[Romaji|romaji]].
* こんにちわ should really be こんにちは. The final character is the [[particles|particle]] は that sounds like 'wa' but is written with the character used for 'ha'. It is not uncommon for Japanese to use the wrong version themselves in casual Japanese, particularly for youngsters and teenage women but '''it should not be used in formal Japanese'''. For more see [[Wa vs Ha]].

== Some Comments ==

Q: I still like to use the kanji for
こと　：　事
いる　：　居る
ある　：　有る

Am I wrong?

[[User:AJBryant|AJBryant]] replies:

Have you ever heard the expression "hen na gaijin"? That's what they will call you.

They will look at you the same way you'd look at someone if he told you, "I'm taking the motor car out for a perambulation and then I'll go see the moving pictures."

[[User:Infidel|Infidel]] quips:

... I heard that people who use kanji alot where they normally shouldn't are called "wapuro baka".

----

I find this quite interesting as a linguistic researcher... Firstly there is a big difference in the way the Japanese and Westerners use Email, for one..
Politness is an important issue, but forums such as these, linguistically speaking, are quite new. As a result there is obviously going to be cultural, and linguistic problems especially when the majority of members using this forum are Westerners, using their non native tongue. Technology has fundamentally changed the way we communicate, and actually had a physically effect on language.. At this early stage, according to extensive research in this area, there is no right or wrong way to communicate in an electronic medium.. but just like in any social group one needs to make sure not to offend others. hence being polite is usually a good idea. This is one of the first times i have actually seen people discussing this as a forum and am both impressed at everyones linguitic maturity and intrigued by everyones responses. I know many collegues who would love to read this...

~[[User:Irairashiteiru|Irairashiteiru]]
[[Category:Practice]]

Writing and Conversation Points

2006-09-08T13:16:37Z

Keatonatron: /* Some Comments */

[http://www.thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=6&thread_id=3309 Original TJP Thread]

Here are some important things to keep in mind when writing Japanese on this forum. This is a mental list I have compiled while reading people's posts and Japanese practice.

== Kanji vs. Kana ==

Do '''not''' greet everyone with "今日は".

[[Kanji]] is cool. We all want to use kanji because it looks smart. IME is great, because you don't have to know how to write the kanji to use it. The problem is, there are some words that simply don't use kanji. One of them is こんにちは. Yes, an obscure reading of 今日 is "こんにち", but 99.9% of Japanese readers will see 今日 and think きょう. I can't count the times I've stumbled upon "今日は！" and thought "Today is... Today is what? What is this person saying about today? I'm so confused..."

The best rule is, only use kanji you know how to write and [[Kana|kana]] when you don't. If you can't follow that, the next best rule is only use kanji you know how to read. If you can't do that, then you should at least only use kanji in a way you've seen it used before (by native Japanese writers). Since こんにちは is never written as "今日は", you should never make the mistake of misusing the kanji like this.

Other words that usually don't use kanji:
*すごい
*どこ
*すぐ
*なる
*する
*いる
*ある
*-みたい (looks like)
*-てほしい

== Politeness ==

In Japanese, an exremely important thing to learn is politeness levels. Many people think if they don't go to Japan, they don't need to worry about politeness. However, it's such an important part of the language and culture that you would be doing yourself a great injustice by overlooking it. Your friends probably wouldn't notice the difference, but when communicating with a Japanese person, your politeness levels will be very evident and can affect the relationship as such. I'm not even Japanese, but whenever I see the wrong politeness levels used it definately affects my feelings (i.e. when someone I thought was a close friend uses distanced speech, or someone I don't know at all speaks very informally, I feel a bit put off).

A quick overview:
;Friends
:In e-mails and MSN conversations with friends, informal/plain form is fine. Feel free to use any slang or contractions you want.

あのさぁ、昨日けんちゃんが俺んちに来たんだよ。

;Acquaintances
:In e-mails and MSN conversations with people you don't really know (i.e. penpals, people you met on this site, etc.) you need to speak politely. Even if you feel like you have a very friendly relationship, this politeness is very important. Keigo (very polite speech) is usually only learned by advanced students, but that fact is known by just about everyone. Just using the polite form and choosing humble words will go a long way.

こんにちは。最近元気でしたか？今日学校が休みでしたから、私は友達と遊びました。

;Public
:When posting messages on this forum, you are addressing the public (i.e. the whole world). We are all friends here, and the highest form of keigo you can throw together is very much an overkill, but speaking informally, like you would to a close friend, is inappropriate. As I sort of mentioned before, I have often come accross posts by people I haven't heard from before, directed at everyone, using informal speech. Reading these makes me think "I don't know you, why are you talking down to me? You must not have much experience speaking Japanese." Aside from making people enjoy your writings more, speaking more politely will make your Japanese abilities appear much more skillful. The writing style for this is very similar to #2.

When addressing the public, do '''not''' refer to yourself as 俺(ore).

Posting a message on the forum directed at someone you know well and are on an "informal" basis with requires a combination of the forms above. You are still communicating in a public domain, which means informal speech is inappropriate. Formal speech (like #2) is fine, but if you want to convey informality, do so with caution. It is possible to mix forms, but learning how to do so takes some experience. Adding a little bit of formality to the informal makes it good enough for the public, but soft enough for your friend.

私もそう思います！とても面白い。Ｔｏｎｙも説明してくれない？楽しみに待ってます。

~[[User:Keatonatron|Keatonatron]]

== Common mistakes ==

* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.
* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is [[Romaji|romaji]].
* こんにちわ should really be こんにちは. The final character is the [[particles|particle]] は that sounds like 'wa' but is written with the character used for 'ha'. It is not uncommon for Japanese to use the wrong version themselves in casual Japanese, particularly for youngsters and teenage women but '''it should not be used in formal Japanese'''. For more see [[Wa vs Ha]].

== Some Comments ==

Q: I still like to use the kanji for
こと　：　事
いる　：　居る
ある　：　有る

Am I wrong?

[[User:AJBryant|AJBryant]] replies:

Have you ever heard the expression "hen na gaijin"? That's what they will call you.

They will look at you the same way you'd look at someone if he told you, "I'm taking the motor car out for a perambulation and then I'll go see the moving pictures."

[[User:Infidel|Infidel]] quips:

... I heard that people who use kanji alot where they normally shouldn't are called "wapuro baka".

----

I find this quite interesting as a linguistic researcher... Firstly there is a big difference in the way the Japanese and Westerners use Email, for one..
Politness is an important issue, but forums such as these, linguistically speaking, are quite new. As a result there is obviously going to be cultural, and linguistic problems especially when the majority of members using this forum are Westerners, using their non native tongue. Technology has fundamentally changed the way we communicate, and actually had a physically effect on language.. At this early stage, according to extensive research in this area, there is no right or wrong way to communicate in an electronic medium.. but just like in any social group one needs to make sure not to offend others. hence being polite is usually a good idea. This is one of the first times i have actually seen people discussing this as a forum and am both impressed at everyones linguitic maturity and intrigued by everyones responses. I know many collegues who would love to read this...

~[[User:Irairashiteiru|Irairashiteiru]]
[[Category:Practice]]

Why TJP doesn't help with Japanese Tattoos

2006-09-01T09:51:43Z

Keatonatron:

I think Japanese tattoos are kind of a sore spot for all of us. Therefore, when one comes asking "what is the kanji for [love/peace/eternity/strength/death metal]? it's for a tattoo so get it right!" they might receive a less-than-warm response.

The thing with tattoos is, 1) they're permanent, and 2) they are supposed to reflect a part of yourself. That's why people, you know, permanently engrave them in their bodies. I don't think there is any argument that a tattoo is supposed to be meaningful and expressive. So, what does a tattoo in kanji/Japanese say about the person who is sporting it?

If the wearer is studying Japanese/Chinese, comes from Chinese/Japanese/kanji-using ancestry, and/or chooses the character themselves for the personal meaning it holds, that would be a pretty awesome tattoo, with a lot of meaning. It would say something about that person's personal qualities and how they view themselves.

However, if someone has no inside knowledge of Japanese/Chinese, simply wants a symbol because it's 'cool', and/or (most of all) can't even tell if the character is written correctly or how it's pronounced in its native language, what meaning and personal characteristics does that tattoo portray? Ignorance, stupidity and trying to be 'cool' (basically, a sellout or poser).

'''To recap:'''

-- Kanji carefully selected by the wearer, using an intimate knowledge of the characters and their meaning: portays the feeling of an Asian scholar expressing themselves through Chinese characters

-- Kanji chosen because it looks cool or 'my friend said it means this': portrays the feeling of an illiterate who can't even read something that is supposed to be meaningful to them.

Understandably, when these types of people come here, they often get treated like someone who can't even read their own name, because essentially that is what they are saying about themselves.

Why TJP doesn't help with Japanese Tattoos

2006-09-01T09:48:16Z

Keatonatron: What is wrong with a kanji/Japanese tattoo?

I think Japanese tattoos are kind of a sore spot for all of us. Therefore, when one comes asking "what is the kanji for [love/peace/eternity/strength/death metal]? it's for a tattoo so get it right!" they might receive a less-than-warm response.

The thing with tattoos is, 1) they're permanent, and 2) they are supposed to reflect a part of yourself. That's why people, you know, permanently engrave them in their bodies. I don't think there is any argument that a tattoo is supposed to be meaningful and expressive. So, what does a tattoo in kanji/Japanese say about the person who is sporting it?

If the wearer is studying Japanese/Chinese, comes from Chinese/Japanese/kanji-using ancestry, and/or chooses the character themselves for the personal meaning it holds, that would be a pretty awesome tattoo, with a lot of meaning. It would say something about that person's personal qualities and how they view themselves.

However, if someone has no inside knowledge of Japanese/Chinese, simply wants a symbol because it's 'cool', and/or (most of all) can't even tell if the character is written correctly or how it's pronounced in its native language, what meaning and personal characteristics does that tattoo portray? Ignorance, stupidity and trying to be 'cool' (basically, a sellout or poser).

To recap:

Kanji carefully selected by the wearer, using an intimate knowledge of the characters and their meaning: portays the feeling of an Asian scholar expressing themselves through Chinese characters

Kanji chosen because it looks cool or 'my friend said it means this': portrays the feeling of an illiterate who can't even read something that is supposed to be meaningful to them.

Therefore, when these types of people come here, they often get treated like someone who can't even read their own name, because essentially that is what they are saying about themselves.

User:Infidel

2006-08-21T10:48:32Z

Keatonatron:

A really cool guy!

User:Keatonatron

2006-08-21T10:45:45Z

Keatonatron:

Keatonatron is the nickname chosen by an administrator of TheJapanesePage.com.

Keatonatron first joined the site in February of 2006; before that, he was a regular member on the about.com Japanese forums. Living in Japan and studying Japanese, Keatonatron has had a lot of experience learning Japanese and is able to pass along that experience to new users.