User talk:Infidel

From WagaWiki

(Difference between revisions)
Jump to: navigation, search
(→Keigo)
(→Wa/Ga)
 
(15 intermediate revisions not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
==Notes==
==Notes==
-
I'm just sticking random notes here for later reference.  Good stuff from the forums that indicates either stuff not found in textbooks, or more advanced concepts that are giving me trouble.
+
I'm just sticking random notes here for personal reference.  Good stuff from the forums that indicates either stuff not found in textbooks or concepts that are giving me trouble.  Even though these notes address my personal weaknesses, I'm putting them here in case they might benefit someone else too.
===Keigo===
===Keigo===
Line 54: Line 54:
  猫がすきな妹がいます。I have a sister who likes cats.
  猫がすきな妹がいます。I have a sister who likes cats.
  猫はすきな妹がいます。(The) Cat has a sister it likes.
  猫はすきな妹がいます。(The) Cat has a sister it likes.
 +
 +
From keatonatron
 +
 +
私もまだはっきりは決めていませんがもう少し英語を勉強するために、一、二年イギリスへ行くつもりです。
 +
 +
:This type of は is a very powerful tool.  Used in this sentence, it basically means that his plans ''are'' somewhat 決まってます, but ''not'' はっきり.  :D
 +
 +
:In other words, he has decided he wants to go to England, but he has not yet decided the details.  Using は like this is kind of like saying "It's not X, but it's not so far to the opposite that I can describe it as such."
 +
 +
Example!
 +
この値段なら安いの？ - Is this a cheap price?
 +
これだったら、安くはないと思う。 - For this, it's not exactly cheap (but it's not expensive either).
 +
 +
:Simply saying 安くない would imply that the price was flat out expensive.
===Na===
===Na===
Line 62: Line 76:
:"In contrast to his ""Not bad looks but seems a bit of a dandy"" appearance he didn't have a girlfriend and he wasn't particularly fast with the ladies."
:"In contrast to his ""Not bad looks but seems a bit of a dandy"" appearance he didn't have a girlfriend and he wasn't particularly fast with the ladies."
[[User:Paul b|Paul b]]
[[User:Paul b|Paul b]]
 +
 +
====No====
 +
From Chris Kern
 +
 +
Look at it this way -- if you consider each type of predicate in 4 forms:
 +
Noun (or na-adjective):
 +
病気だ
 +
病気じゃない
 +
病気だった
 +
病気じゃなかった
 +
Adjective:
 +
安い
 +
安くない
 +
安かった
 +
安くなかった
 +
Verb:
 +
食べる
 +
食べない
 +
食べた
 +
食べなかった
 +
 +
:For every one of those sentences, you can put a noun directly after it and it will turn the :sentence into a modifying clause -- with one exception. There is no *病気だ人. However, we do :have 病気の人. This is the justification for considering this の as "a form of だ".
 +
 +
From Coco
 +
○はなこさん　の　プレゼント　は　なに　に　しますか。
 +
×はなこさん　に　プレゼント　は　なに　に　しますか。
 +
:As other members said, I don't think に works in this context.
 +
:When you use に before プレゼント, a verb is needed after プレゼント. Then add a noun.
 +
○はなこさん　に　プレゼント する　しなもの　は　なに　に　しますか。
 +
○はなこさん(へ)のプレゼントには、何を選べばいいでしょうか。
 +
○はなこさん(へ)のプレゼントには、先月発売されたゲームがいいと思いますよ。
===You ni===
===You ni===
Line 90: Line 135:
  "You ni" at the end of a sentence indicates that the preceding is a wish.
  "You ni" at the end of a sentence indicates that the preceding is a wish.
 +
 +
From Oyaji
 +
 +
The two uses of 「ように」(you ni) that have been brought up are grammatically the same thing, and conceivably either one could be correct in this case.
 +
 +
It can be a request:
 +
「遅れないようにお願いします」
 +
"Please don't be late." meaning "Please make it '''so that'''  you aren't late."
 +
 +
It can be a sort of a prayer (The "I hope" or "I wish" meaning):
 +
「合格しますように」= 「神様、合格しますようにしてください。」
 +
"Dear God, please make it '''so that''' I pass." (Creative license invoked)
 +
 +
As Paul said, this is often used with the ます form, as in the above example, but not always.
 +
 +
私のことを忘れないように（願います）（祈ります）
 +
"Please don't (I pray you don't) forget me."
 +
 +
私のことを忘れないように（何かします）」
 +
(Do something) '''so that''' you don't forget me.
===Desire===
===Desire===
Line 114: Line 179:
:My own experience is that the conditional form is used alot more than the provisional form.  And most times that I run across the provisional it's in idiomatic expressions like ～なければいけない　have to do something.
:My own experience is that the conditional form is used alot more than the provisional form.  And most times that I run across the provisional it's in idiomatic expressions like ～なければいけない　have to do something.
 +
 +
 +
===～て、vs. る===
 +
Chris Kern kara
 +
One thing to keep in mind in Japanese is that stative and intransitive verbs often contain a potential meaning within 
 +
them. That is, 癒える means "will heal" but also can have the connotation of "is able to heal"
 +
-- a form like *癒えられる does not normally occur. あの窓は開きますよ。 means "That window will/can open".
 +
 +
== Work in Progress ==
 +
 +
I'm corrently working on a [[Template:Book Review]] page for eventual fully detailed book reviews.  Let's see how I do.
 +
 +
== Memorization canditate sentences ==
 +
 +
Nothing special here.  Just sentences that encountered IRL and should have understood but couldn't, so I'm memorizing them to make the patterns more natural.  Besides, sentences are strangely easier to memorize than individual words.
 +
 +
By JT.
 +
自己紹介はこれくらいしか思い浮かばないのですが、ほかに何か知りたいことがあったらご遠慮なく何でも聞いて下さい。("This is all I can think of for my self-introduction for now, but if you want to know anything else, feel free to ask me anything.")

Current revision as of 00:00, 20 November 2008

Contents

Notes

I'm just sticking random notes here for personal reference. Good stuff from the forums that indicates either stuff not found in textbooks or concepts that are giving me trouble. Even though these notes address my personal weaknesses, I'm putting them here in case they might benefit someone else too.

Keigo

From Shin1ro San

In my head, from the highest rank of politeness to the lower. 

お金を貸していただけないでしょうか? - very polite
お金を貸していただけませんか？ - very polite
お金を貸していただきたいのですが。 - very polite
お金を貸していただけますか？ - very polite, rather direct
お金を貸してもらえないでしょうか? - polite
お金を貸してもらえませんか？ - polite
お金を貸してもらいたいのですが。 - polite, rather direct
お金を貸してもらえますか？ - polite, rather direct
お金を貸してくれないでしょうか? - polite
お金を貸してくれませんか？ - neutral, rather direct
お金を貸してほしいのですが。 - neutral, rather direct
お金を貸してくれますか？ - neutral, direct

お金貸してもらえないかな？ - casual
お金貸してもらえるかな？ - casual, rather direct
お金貸してもらえる？ - casual, rather direct
お金貸してくれないかな？ - casual
お金貸してくれるかな？ - casual, rather direct
お金貸してくれる？ - casual, rather direct
お金貸してほしいんだけど。 - casual, neutral
お金貸して - casual, most direct!

金を貸せ。 - rude, almost theatening
金を出せ - criminal robbery

just joking :-P

Comparisons

From Oyaji 

したほうがいい is not past tense.
"You should have" would be 「したほうがよかった」

行った方がいいですか　"Should I go?"
行った方がよかったですか　"Should I have gone?"
行く方がいいですか　"Is going better?"

Wa/Ga

From Paul 

Hmm, exceptions ... well は always works for the whole sentence so if your が 
is in a subclause then it can't be replaced with は. 
猫がすきな妹がいます。I have a sister who likes cats.
猫はすきな妹がいます。(The) Cat has a sister it likes.

From keatonatron 

私もまだはっきりは決めていませんがもう少し英語を勉強するために、一、二年イギリスへ行くつもりです。
This type of は is a very powerful tool. Used in this sentence, it basically means that his plans are somewhat 決まってます, but not はっきり.  :D
In other words, he has decided he wants to go to England, but he has not yet decided the details. Using は like this is kind of like saying "It's not X, but it's not so far to the opposite that I can describe it as such." 
Example!
この値段なら安いの？ - Is this a cheap price?
これだったら、安くはないと思う。 - For this, it's not exactly cheap (but it's not expensive either).
Simply saying 安くない would imply that the price was flat out expensive.

Na

Here's another example of な with a phrase

「見た目は悪くないがちょっと軽薄そう」な外見とは裏腹に、彼女はいないし、女性に手が早いワケでもない。
"In contrast to his ""Not bad looks but seems a bit of a dandy"" appearance he didn't have a girlfriend and he wasn't particularly fast with the ladies."

Paul b

No

From Chris Kern 

Look at it this way -- if you consider each type of predicate in 4 forms:
Noun (or na-adjective):
病気だ
病気じゃない
病気だった
病気じゃなかった
Adjective:
安い
安くない
安かった
安くなかった
Verb:
食べる
食べない
食べた
食べなかった
For every one of those sentences, you can put a noun directly after it and it will turn the :sentence into a modifying clause -- with one exception. There is no *病気だ人. However, we do :have 病気の人. This is the justification for considering this の as "a form of だ".

From Coco 

○はなこさん　の　プレゼント　は　なに　に　しますか。
×はなこさん　に　プレゼント　は　なに　に　しますか。
As other members said, I don't think に works in this context.
When you use に before プレゼント, a verb is needed after プレゼント. Then add a noun. 
○はなこさん　に　プレゼント する　しなもの　は　なに　に　しますか。
○はなこさん(へ)のプレゼントには、何を選べばいいでしょうか。
○はなこさん(へ)のプレゼントには、先月発売されたゲームがいいと思いますよ。

You ni

From Keatanotron

Usually we use [adverb form of adjective] or [nouns + に] plus [なる] to say something became something else... But how do you do that with verbs? Verbs don't have an adverb form, and you can't put に on the end of them.

In that type of situation, we use よう after the verbs to create a bridge that can be なるed It doesn't have anything to do with time.

I can't think of how to explain why we use よう like this. That's just how it's done! 

Examples!
 Adjective:
 赤くなった - It turned red
 Noun:
 大学生になった - I became a college student
 Verb:
 分かるようになった - It became that I understood ("I came to understand")
 できるようになった - It became that I could ("I came to be able to...")

From Adam 

I believe in this case, the ように is from the structure "Dictionary form + ようにする"
which means "Try to ~, make sure to ~"

From Richvh 

"You ni" at the end of a sentence indicates that the preceding is a wish.

From Oyaji

The two uses of 「ように」(you ni) that have been brought up are grammatically the same thing, and conceivably either one could be correct in this case. 

It can be a request:
「遅れないようにお願いします」
"Please don't be late." meaning "Please make it so that  you aren't late."

It can be a sort of a prayer (The "I hope" or "I wish" meaning):
「合格しますように」= 「神様、合格しますようにしてください。」
"Dear God, please make it so that I pass." (Creative license invoked)

As Paul said, this is often used with the ます form, as in the above example, but not always. 

私のことを忘れないように（願います）（祈ります）
"Please don't (I pray you don't) forget me."

私のことを忘れないように（何かします）」
(Do something) so that you don't forget me.

Desire

From Richvh 

You use -tai form to indicate something you want to do; you use -te hoshii form to indicate 
something you want someone else to do, and ga hoshii form to indicate something you want.


Conditionals

From BigKahuna

～たら

(the conditional) means that if/when something happens something else happens
田中は来たら、僕は行く　When/if Tanaka comes, I'll go.  It can mean certainty (when) or 
have some level of uncertainty (if) depending on context.  ～たら can be used for past 
event  田中は来たら、僕は行った When Tanaka came, I went.

～えば

(the provisional) means if or "provided that".  田中は行けば、　僕も行く　Provided 
that Tanaka goes, I'll also go.  Whereas the conditional can mean certainty there has 
to be some level of uncertainty with this form.  Also this form cannot be used for 
past events (since we know the outcome of a past event)
My own experience is that the conditional form is used alot more than the provisional form. And most times that I run across the provisional it's in idiomatic expressions like ～なければいけない　have to do something.


～て、vs. る

Chris Kern kara 

One thing to keep in mind in Japanese is that stative and intransitive verbs often contain a potential meaning within  
them. That is, 癒える means "will heal" but also can have the connotation of "is able to heal" 
-- a form like *癒えられる does not normally occur. あの窓は開きますよ。 means "That window will/can open".

Work in Progress

I'm corrently working on a Template:Book Review page for eventual fully detailed book reviews. Let's see how I do.

Memorization canditate sentences

Nothing special here. Just sentences that encountered IRL and should have understood but couldn't, so I'm memorizing them to make the patterns more natural. Besides, sentences are strangely easier to memorize than individual words.

By JT. 自己紹介はこれくらいしか思い浮かばないのですが、ほかに何か知りたいことがあったらご遠慮なく何でも聞いて下さい。("This is all I can think of for my self-introduction for now, but if you want to know anything else, feel free to ask me anything.")

Retrieved from "http://thejapanesepage.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Infidel"
Personal tools