Writing and Conversation Points - Revision history

Phreadom: Fixed forum link (It was using an old format which no longer works).

Phreadom — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:33:37 GMT

Fixed forum link (It was using an old format which no longer works).

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:33, 21 October 2008
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-	[http://www.thejapanesepage.com/forum/~~viewthread~~.php?~~forum_id~~=6&~~thread_id~~=3309 Original TJP Thread]	+	[http://www.thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3309 Original TJP Thread]

	Here are some important things to keep in mind when writing Japanese on this forum. This is a mental list I have compiled while reading people's posts and Japanese practice.		Here are some important things to keep in mind when writing Japanese on this forum. This is a mental list I have compiled while reading people's posts and Japanese practice.

Coco: /* Some Comments */

Coco — Thu, 03 May 2007 23:56:47 GMT

Some Comments

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	I'm wondering what your stance on using kanji for できる is? I've frequently seen it as both できる and 出来る. Which way is the more proper way to use it?		I'm wondering what your stance on using kanji for できる is? I've frequently seen it as both できる and 出来る. Which way is the more proper way to use it?
		+
		+	F00fbugさん [http://thejapanesepage.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Writing_and_Conversation_Points#.E8.B3.AA.E5.95.8F こちらをご覧ください]--[[User:Coco\|Coco　]] 19:56, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

F00fbug at 19:26, 30 April 2007

F00fbug — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:26:25 GMT

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	~[[User:Irairashiteiru\|Irairashiteiru]]		~[[User:Irairashiteiru\|Irairashiteiru]]
	[[Category:Practice]]		[[Category:Practice]]
		+
		+	----
		+
		+	[[User:F00fbug\|F00fbug]] asks:
		+
		+	I'm wondering what your stance on using kanji for できる is? I've frequently seen it as both できる and 出来る. Which way is the more proper way to use it?

Keatonatron at 13:24, 8 September 2006

Keatonatron — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:24:05 GMT

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	~[[User:Keatonatron\|Keatonatron]]		~[[User:Keatonatron\|Keatonatron]]
		+
		+
		+	== Addressing Others ==
		+
		+	Another extremely important part of politeness in Japanese is the words you use to refer to others and yourself. Most words aren't bad by themselves, they just need to be limited to use in the correct situations. A quote from an earlier forum post:
		+
		+	''In the wrong situation, "お前" is a fightin' word. Go to Japan and use it with people you don't know and you just might get yourself beat up.
		+
		+	One thing Coco pointed out in her post above, learning politeness is very important, because there are very small differences between saying something in a way that will get a good response and saying it in a way that will make the other person angry (note Coco's examples). お前, used in the proper situation, is a perfectly normal, common word. In the wrong situation, it can get you into a lot of trouble.''
		+
		+	Other words that require care when using:
		+
		+	あんた - This one is occasionally used by older women when talking to their husbands, but for anyone else it generally means you are angry and ready to start throwing fists.
		+
		+	てめえ - This one appears in comic books a lot, and is barely used in real life -- outside of fights that is. Once I said it to a friend as a joke, and he got this surprised look on his face and said "what, I don't want to fight you!" I recommend it not be used, even as a joke (you will just look foolish).
		+
		+	~[[User:Keatonatron\|Keatonatron]]
		+

	== Common mistakes ==		== Common mistakes ==

Keatonatron: /* Some Comments */

Keatonatron — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 13:16:37 GMT

Some Comments

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	== Some Comments ==		== Some Comments ==
-
-	~~----~~
-
-	~~As I pointed out in another thread: In the wrong situation, "お前" is a fightin' word. Go to Japan and use it with people you don't know and you just might get yourself beat up.~~
-
-	One thing Coco pointed out in her post above, learning politeness is very important, because there are very small differences between saying something in a way that will get a good response and saying it in a way that will make the other person angry (note Coco's examples). お前, used in the proper situation, is a perfectly normal, common word. In the wrong situation, it can get you into a lot of trouble.
-
-	~~~[[User:Keatonatron\|Keatonatron]]~~
-
-	~~----~~

	Q: I still like to use the kanji for		Q: I still like to use the kanji for

Paul b: /* Common mistakes */

Paul b — Sat, 19 Aug 2006 16:07:59 GMT

Common mistakes

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	* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.		* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.
	* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is [[Romaji\|romaji]].		* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is [[Romaji\|romaji]].
-	* こんにちわ should really be こんにちは. The final character is the [[particles\|particle]] は that sounds like 'wa' but is written with the character used for 'ha'. It is not uncommon for Japanese to use the wrong version themselves in casual Japanese, particularly for youngsters and teenage women but '''it should not be used in formal Japanese'''.	+	* こんにちわ should really be こんにちは. The final character is the [[particles\|particle]] は that sounds like 'wa' but is written with the character used for 'ha'. It is not uncommon for Japanese to use the wrong version themselves in casual Japanese, particularly for youngsters and teenage women but '''it should not be used in formal Japanese'''. For more see [[Wa vs Ha]].

	== Some Comments ==		== Some Comments ==

Paul b: /* Kanji vs. Kana */

Paul b — Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:30:32 GMT

Kanji vs. Kana

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	Do '''not''' greet everyone with "今日は".		Do '''not''' greet everyone with "今日は".

-	Kanji is cool. We all want to use kanji because it looks ~~more~~ smart. IME is great, because you don't have to know how to write the kanji to use it. The problem is, there are some words that simply don't use kanji. One of them is こんにちは. Yes, an obscure reading of 今日 is "こんにち", but 99.9% of Japanese readers will see 今日 and think きょう. I can't count the times I've stumbled upon "今日は！" and thought "Today is... Today is what? What is this person saying about today? I'm so confused..."	+	[[Kanji]] is cool. We all want to use kanji because it looks smart. IME is great, because you don't have to know how to write the kanji to use it. The problem is, there are some words that simply don't use kanji. One of them is こんにちは. Yes, an obscure reading of 今日 is "こんにち", but 99.9% of Japanese readers will see 今日 and think きょう. I can't count the times I've stumbled upon "今日は！" and thought "Today is... Today is what? What is this person saying about today? I'm so confused..."

-	The best rule is, only use kanji you know how to write. If you can't follow that, the next best rule is only use kanji you know how to read. If you can't do that, then you should at least only use kanji in a way you've seen it used before (by native Japanese writers). Since こんにちは is never written as "今日は", you should never make the mistake of misusing the kanji like this.	+	The best rule is, only use kanji you know how to write and [[Kana\|kana]] when you don't. If you can't follow that, the next best rule is only use kanji you know how to read. If you can't do that, then you should at least only use kanji in a way you've seen it used before (by native Japanese writers). Since こんにちは is never written as "今日は", you should never make the mistake of misusing the kanji like this.

	Other words that usually don't use kanji:		Other words that usually don't use kanji:

Paul b: /* Common mistakes */

Paul b — Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:23:47 GMT

Common mistakes

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	* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.		* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.
-	* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is romaji.	+	* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is [[Romaji\|romaji]].
	* こんにちわ should really be こんにちは. The final character is the [[particles\|particle]] は that sounds like 'wa' but is written with the character used for 'ha'. It is not uncommon for Japanese to use the wrong version themselves in casual Japanese, particularly for youngsters and teenage women but '''it should not be used in formal Japanese'''.		* こんにちわ should really be こんにちは. The final character is the [[particles\|particle]] は that sounds like 'wa' but is written with the character used for 'ha'. It is not uncommon for Japanese to use the wrong version themselves in casual Japanese, particularly for youngsters and teenage women but '''it should not be used in formal Japanese'''.

Neeson: /* Politeness */

Neeson — Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:15:13 GMT

Politeness

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	:When posting messages on this forum, you are addressing the public (i.e. the whole world). We are all friends here, and the highest form of keigo you can throw together is very much an overkill, but speaking informally, like you would to a close friend, is inappropriate. As I sort of mentioned before, I have often come accross posts by people I haven't heard from before, directed at everyone, using informal speech. Reading these makes me think "I don't know you, why are you talking down to me? You must not have much experience speaking Japanese." Aside from making people enjoy your writings more, speaking more politely will make your Japanese abilities appear much more skillful. The writing style for this is very similar to #2.		:When posting messages on this forum, you are addressing the public (i.e. the whole world). We are all friends here, and the highest form of keigo you can throw together is very much an overkill, but speaking informally, like you would to a close friend, is inappropriate. As I sort of mentioned before, I have often come accross posts by people I haven't heard from before, directed at everyone, using informal speech. Reading these makes me think "I don't know you, why are you talking down to me? You must not have much experience speaking Japanese." Aside from making people enjoy your writings more, speaking more politely will make your Japanese abilities appear much more skillful. The writing style for this is very similar to #2.

-	When addressing the public, do ~~[b]~~not~~[/b]~~ refer to yourself as 俺(ore).	+	When addressing the public, do '''not''' refer to yourself as 俺(ore).

	Posting a message on the forum directed at someone you know well and are on an "informal" basis with requires a combination of the forms above. You are still communicating in a public domain, which means informal speech is inappropriate. Formal speech (like #2) is fine, but if you want to convey informality, do so with caution. It is possible to mix forms, but learning how to do so takes some experience. Adding a little bit of formality to the informal makes it good enough for the public, but soft enough for your friend.		Posting a message on the forum directed at someone you know well and are on an "informal" basis with requires a combination of the forms above. You are still communicating in a public domain, which means informal speech is inappropriate. Formal speech (like #2) is fine, but if you want to convey informality, do so with caution. It is possible to mix forms, but learning how to do so takes some experience. Adding a little bit of formality to the informal makes it good enough for the public, but soft enough for your friend.

Paul b: /* Common mistakes */

Paul b — Sun, 06 Aug 2006 08:05:45 GMT

Common mistakes

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:05, 6 August 2006
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	* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.		* みんな (minna) means 'everyone, all' and is a good Japanese word. みな (mina) means the same but '''みんなさん (minnasan)''' is wrong, you should use '''みなさん (minasan)''' instead.
	* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is romaji.		* romanji is a very common '''mistake''' the most common 'correct' spelling is romaji.
		+	* こんにちわ should really be こんにちは. The final character is the [[particles\|particle]] は that sounds like 'wa' but is written with the character used for 'ha'. It is not uncommon for Japanese to use the wrong version themselves in casual Japanese, particularly for youngsters and teenage women but '''it should not be used in formal Japanese'''.

	== Some Comments ==		== Some Comments ==