Writing and Conversation Points

From WagaWiki

Revision as of 02:13, 7 July 2006 by Zengargoyle (Talk | contribs)
Jump to: navigation, search

Original TJP Thread

Here are some important things to keep in mind when writing Japanese on this forum. This is a mental list I have compiled while reading people's posts and Japanese practice.

Kanji vs. Kana

Do not greet everyone with "今日は".

Kanji is cool. We all want to use kanji because it looks more smart. IME is great, because you don't have to know how to write the kanji to use it. The problem is, there are some words that simply don't use kanji. One of them is こんにちは. Yes, an obscure reading of 今日 is "こんにち", but 99.9% of Japanese readers will see 今日 and think きょう. I can't count the times I've stumbled upon "今日は!" and thought "Today is... Today is what? What is this person saying about today? I'm so confused..."

The best rule is, only use kanji you know how to write. If you can't follow that, the next best rule is only use kanji you know how to read. If you can't do that, then you should at least only use kanji in a way you've seen it used before (by native Japanese writers). Since こんにちは is never written as "今日は", you should never make the mistake of misusing the kanji like this.

Other words that usually don't use kanji:

  • すごい
  • どこ
  • すぐ
  • なる
  • する
  • いる
  • ある
  • -みたい (looks like)
  • -てほしい

Politeness

In Japanese, an exremely important thing to learn is politeness levels. Many people think if they don't go to Japan, they don't need to worry about politeness. However, it's such an important part of the language and culture that you would be doing yourself a great injustice by overlooking it. Your friends probably wouldn't notice the difference, but when communicating with a Japanese person, your politeness levels will be very evident and can affect the relationship as such. I'm not even Japanese, but whenever I see the wrong politeness levels used it definately affects my feelings (i.e. when someone I thought was a close friend uses distanced speech, or someone I don't know at all speaks very informally, I feel a bit put off).

A quick overview:

Friends
In e-mails and MSN conversations with friends, informal/plain form is fine. Feel free to use any slang or contractions you want.

あのさぁ、昨日けんちゃんが俺んちに来たんだよ。

Acquaintances
In e-mails and MSN conversations with people you don't really know (i.e. penpals, people you met on this site, etc.) you need to speak politely. Even if you feel like you have a very friendly relationship, this politeness is very important. Keigo (very polite speech) is usually only learned by advanced students, but that fact is known by just about everyone. Just using the polite form and choosing humble words will go a long way.

こんにちは。最近元気でしたか?今日学校が休みでしたから、私は友達と遊びました。

Public
When posting messages on this forum, you are addressing the public (i.e. the whole world). We are all friends here, and the highest form of keigo you can throw together is very much an overkill, but speaking informally, like you would to a close friend, is inappropriate. As I sort of mentioned before, I have often come accross posts by people I haven't heard from before, directed at everyone, using informal speech. Reading these makes me think "I don't know you, why are you talking down to me? You must not have much experience speaking Japanese." Aside from making people enjoy your writings more, speaking more politely will make your Japanese abilities appear much more skillful. The writing style for this is very similar to #2.

When addressing the public, do [b]not[/b] refer to yourself as 俺(ore).

Posting a message on the forum directed at someone you know well and are on an "informal" basis with requires a combination of the forms above. You are still communicating in a public domain, which means informal speech is inappropriate. Formal speech (like #2) is fine, but if you want to convey informality, do so with caution. It is possible to mix forms, but learning how to do so takes some experience. Adding a little bit of formality to the informal makes it good enough for the public, but soft enough for your friend.

私もそう思います!とても面白い。Tonyも説明してくれない?楽しみに待ってます。

For a good example of how to address the public, pay attention to the way Pipin and Coco address various people.

(PipinさんとCocoさん:皆はPさんとCさんのポストに正しい丁寧さを習えると思います。恥ずかしかったら、ごめんなさい!今からも、普通に書いてください)

~Keatonatron

Some Comments

keatonatronさん。

日本人との意思疎通を図る上で、大変に役に立つ有益な情報だと思います。すばらしい! 特に人間関係にかかわる表現については重要だと考えていました。以前、「初対面の人間に対して『お前』と呼んだら、ほとんど喧嘩になるだろう」という別のスレッドの書き込みを見て、非常に親身なアドバイスだと敬服しました。このような貴重なアドバイスができる方の存在は、このサイトの財産であると思います。(消えてしまったMukadeさんの書き込みも含蓄のあるものでしたので残念です)。

  • 「何?」「何だと?」
  • 「してくれ」「してくれない?」
  • 「したいか?」「したいの?」
  • 「どうしたんだ」「どうしたの?」
  • 「暑いか」「暑いの?」

等々、たった一音の語尾の違いで、なぜこうも感情が変わるのか日本人としても不思議です。(これは私には当たり前のこと過ぎて、このサイトで学ばせていただくまで、疑問を感じたことはありまんせでした)。日本語学習者にとっては不可解なことだらけでしょうが、keatonatronさんのこのスレッドが、そういう質疑応答の場所になり、FAQ のひとつの解答としてまとまれば、すばらしいことだと思います。 いろいろお気遣いいただきありがとうございます。

As a Japanese, I think this thread is very helpful/useful especially for self learning people.

I hadn't have a suspicion the reason of why..

  • only one ending sound makes us angry.
  • 君/お前 (addressed you) are allowed among friends, teenagers, while not acceptable on the public occasion, and so on..
  • あなたanata, あんたan(n)ta---it certainly makes big difference, although the pronunciation is only little differ.
  • etc. etc.

It's very hard to explain ( at least for me ). It must be "unreasonable/absurd/incongruous/etc." enough for you (even for me), but it is. Also not so many people try to tell you about these very important/delicate topics, I think. Therefore I believe this thread is very important.

Related threads might be:

  • [1]Usage of 二人称の人代?]
  • [2]絶対におかしい]
  • [3]Bored Japanese Ranting ^_^]
  • [4]Feminine and Masculine Japanese]
  • [5]礼節の問題]
  • [6]Politeness levels]

Related articles by clay-san:

  • [7]The Various Degrees of Politeness]
  • [8]I, me, you, thou...]

~Coco


As I pointed out in another thread: In the wrong situation, "お前" is a fightin' word. Go to Japan and use it with people you don't know and you just might get yourself beat up.

One thing Coco pointed out in her post above, learning politeness is very important, because there are very small differences between saying something in a way that will get a good response and saying it in a way that will make the other person angry (note Coco's examples). お前, used in the proper situation, is a perfectly normal, common word. In the wrong situation, it can get you into a lot of trouble.

~Keatonatron


Q: I still like to use the kanji for

こと : 事
いる : 居る
ある : 有る

Am I wrong?

User:AJBryant replies:

Have you ever heard the expression "hen na gaijin"? That's what they will call you.

They will look at you the same way you'd look at someone if he told you, "I'm taking the motor car out for a perambulation and then I'll go see the moving pictures."

User:Infidel quips:

... I heard that people who use kanji alot where they normally shouldn't are called "wapuro baka".


I find this quite interesting as a linguistic researcher... Firstly there is a big difference in the way the Japanese and Westerners use Email, for one.. Politness is an important issue, but forums such as these, linguistically speaking, are quite new. As a result there is obviously going to be cultural, and linguistic problems especially when the majority of members using this forum are Westerners, using their non native tongue. Technology has fundamentally changed the way we communicate, and actually had a physically effect on language.. At this early stage, according to extensive research in this area, there is no right or wrong way to communicate in an electronic medium.. but just like in any social group one needs to make sure not to offend others. hence being polite is usually a good idea. This is one of the first times i have actually seen people discussing this as a forum and am both impressed at everyones linguitic maturity and intrigued by everyones responses. I know many collegues who would love to read this...

~irairashiteiru

Personal tools